W4S Remedy into Sonos

Ta 

Copied from the Qobuz, Deezer Elite, Tidal.... thread without amends:

According to W4S the Remedy is just a Femto-grade clock that re-clocks the signal it receives, while the internal mod, amongst other things, also addresses the power fed to the clock. Their advise is go with their modified Sonos, if you are going to use a Sonos or have one already. Some of this probably also comes down to convenience, I suppose, rather than big sonic advantages to worry about. Having the mod done within the Sonos simply avoids having to use one more cable and a dedicated power supply for the Remedy. Bottom line, I wouldn't worry too much about any sound differences and get the solution that appeals more. Admittedly the Remedy has the added advantage that it can also be used with an Airport Express or Apple TV, if you wanted to in the future. For example when Apple's new streaming service will have launched and Naim take another three years to offer native integration on their streamer.

I use a Dr. Gert Volk modified Sonos ZP90 and am very happy with that solution. The G-Sonos concentrates on providing a high quality 16/44.1 output, with as low jitter as possible. No upsampling is done, unlike with the W4S approach. Some argue that this results in a more natural sounding musical presentation but I can't verify this from personal experience as I have not listened to other Sonos modifications. All I can say is that I am very happy with the result and find it hard to distinguish between the G-Sonos and my CDX2.2, when both are connected to a Naim DAC.

If I wanted to buy a modified Sonos today or get mine upgraded, I would take a close look at the company (Magna Hifi) Adam mentioned. In fact I spoke to one of the chaps there today, just out of interest. They are taking a similar approach as the Gert Volk chap, i.e. focusing on providing the best possible 16/44.1 bitstream output. They seem to have put a lot of thinking into their modifications, including addressing the internal SMPS of the Sonos. At the current EUR/GBP exchange rate their offering is also financially rather more attractive compared to the W4S Sonos.

For those interested here an overview of their Sonos modifications.

MAGNA ULTIMO Modification: 

• Modification is available for Sonos Connect or Sonos ZP90

• New extreme accurate Ultra Low Jitter Tentlabs Clock module replaces standard Sonos Oscillator.

• The Oscillator module is powered by separate power branch including special (ultra wide band) power regulator for optimized operation and precision of the Tentlabs oscillator

• Standard (poor) SPDIF RCA chassis part is replaced with new gold plated connector.

• Original digital SPDIF signal is internally "re-clocked" and buffered to eliminate any remaining jitter.

• Modification is executed on Coax SPDIF output, the optical output (TOS Link) is being 'disabled' (can be re-enabled as an option, see options).

• Improving the integrated 12V and 3,3V power rails for maximum performance. Using high grade Panasonic FC and Wima MKT capacitors result in low voltage rinkle for improved derived power branches.
• Electromagnetic shielding from the transformer and coil of the switching power supply to prevent interferences in the digital audio-signal.
• Tentlabs clock output level correction to match clock input of the Cirrus DAC chip. 
• LED is replaced by a blue, to identify it as 'Ultimo'.

Plus there are some add on options to choose from, such as BNC out instead of RCA. This option is free, for other options there is a surcharge. 

Interesting stuff TP - Another option in the UK is Fidelity Audio. More options than i first thought for this box. 

James

I've been looking at this gizmo for a while but I must admit that the word ''seems'' is what's keeping me from hitting the ''add to cart'' button. 

I tried a Sonos Connect directly into a Hugo and, compared to reclocked through the NDX, it sounded horrible.

Reclocked with W4S Remedy and linear PS, using DC1 cables into Hugo is marginally better than reclocked through NDX I'm finding.

I'd rather enjoy an extended library and great user interface now than worry about the minutiae of 'seeming' audio differences.

G

It would be worth a try

Graeme - I have turned off Sonos compression, and use Toslink to the NDX / Hugo. It sounds not as good as native NDX / Hugo - it seems to lack some texture and detail - but its not bad. I also have used Toslink from Sonos directly into Hugo - and not a million miles behind going via NDX.

I might have a good Sonos example?

S

By Sonos 'compression' do you mean the volume Simon? If so mine is 'fixed' too but if this is a further setting I can tweak I'd be interested to know.

Thanks,

G

In my Sonos days I had my ZP90 modded by Dr Gert Volk, and a fine-sounding piece of kit it was too.

He is still around - I sold my unit last year and got in touch with him in order to pass on the precise details of the mods to the buyer.

Graeme

If you go into the Sonos settings > Manage > Music Library Settings > Advanced (taking you to Advanced Settings)> General > Audio Compression this is where you will see an "Audio Compression" drop down list option for Automatic - Compressed or Uncompressed. Just highlight the compression value you prefer.

Steve

Yes that's right "Uncompressed" for switching compression off.

Thanks!

G

Wow, the Fidelity Audio guys seem to take the Sonos modification to a few extra levels. Spoilt for choice it seems, if you live in the UK. It would be interesting to have a listen to the various options. Quite pricey at the high end though. What's interesting, they seem to be a bit of an upgrade specialist, doing all kinds of brands, including some good old entry level Naim gear...

tp

After 3 weeks of the NDX being turned off, the Sonos is becoming very convincing...

I have a Sonos Connect W4S, feeding into NDac/555ps...

Just fitted a DC1 today....what an improvement, the gap becomes negligible to my ears...

A Nordost Purple Flare power cord arrives next week which is the final piece of the change.

Using  Deezer Elite, which is excellent....and now have UServe feeding direct into NDac via a DC1, also can stream from NAS into  Sonos which is also good.

The Sonos software is very user friendly, the t'other half loves it and uses it everyday, discovering much new music via Deezer...

So, well impressed with the change....

Same here, Dr. Gert Volk Sonos into nDAC/555PS, nearly indistinguishable from CDX2.2 into the same - both via DC1. €700 modified Sonos on par with a €5,500 CD player, when feeding a top DAC. Same will apply to NDX as front end. Hard to make a case for expensive Naim streamers, which fail badly on the software front as well as CD quality streaming services.

How are you applying room correction Wat? 

Dayjay, I am also enjoying my stock Sonos reclocked by the NDX using mostly Qobuz.  i have removed an AppleTV that was sat on my Sonos, and the SQ has improved ( I read the Sonos was susceptible to local RFI), and I connect my Sonos to the NDX via Toslink and then coax to the Hugo.

iIt really is very good.. Critically not quite as crisp or extended , the bass a little softer and not quite as layered as native NDX streaming.. Going through many of The Undertones EPs last night .. Fantastic stuff... )

Simon - I'm finding reclocked through Remedy with DC1 cabling to both Remedy & Hugo and the linear PS the audio is superb. After a short break in of the latter components, better than through NDX for both NAS and Qobuz/Deezer Elite.

The transparency in particular was quite unexpected...I feel a 'window' analogy coming on so I'd better stop.

G

G 

when the new streamer firmware comes out, be interesting to see if you think the reclocking performance of the streamer sounds better...

NDX with another now Simon. Life's too short!

G

Interesting, thanks for sharing

Very good!

I find it's an accumulation of small (in themselves) tweaks that combine to make the Sonos Connect/W4S source a fantastic source.

1. Fix Volume

2. Minimise Compression

3. Switch of WiFi

4. Add Linear Power Supply to W4S

5. Replace Supplied Mains Lead onto Grahams Hydra for PS

6. Use High Quality (DC1 for me) leads between Sonos/W4S/Hugo (BNC where able)

'Thick As A Brick' sounding absolutely alive as I type. Great timbres, dynamics and, well, P.R.A.T.

G