App for Windows 8
Posted by: filoe on 06 March 2015
Do you plan to provide the app for Windows 8? Would like to buy the muso system but if've got no android or ios device. If not, does anyone got any experience with the bluestacks emulator?
Yeah. I don't doubt that. Lots and lots of ways to go. I've got all my music on a NAS for the NDS in the lounge, so a primary consideration is streaming it to the office. The little Sonos works excellently but it's weedy sounding (which is OK) and can't do greater than 16/44 (which is not so OK).
I'm talking about running it from a PC or laptop Kevin, not a windows phone. My office is stuffed full of them. I don't want to run my office system/pod/bar from my Galaxy or my iPad or Helen's iPod or iPhone. I want to run it from a PC. It's an expensive sound bar. It should be possible. I didn't have any problem running my B&W A5 from a PC either. Naim is behind the curve. Not that it makes any difference to me because if an office system can't be controlled from a PC it's not on the shortlist and it's not like there isn't a huge choice out there. But what I won't accept is that desiring a Windows control interface is somehow wrong or unreasonable. That's silly.
I do not think its wrong or unreasonable to desire a Windows based control interface. I just firmly believe that Naim will not make one in the near future.
And that is the reason why I won't buy a mu-so. Making no business is simply their fault. I feel sad about it because its a great hardware and I would be willing to invest that money for the mu-so. But no, they won't offer me a way to control it. And I don't want to try out any other programs on the market. I mean for so much money, they HAVE TO provide a nice app for controlling it. It's as easy as that.
And that is the reason why I won't buy a mu-so. Making no business is simply their fault. I feel sad about it because its a great hardware and I would be willing to invest that money for the mu-so. But no, they won't offer me a way to control it. And I don't want to try out any other programs on the market. I mean for so much money, they HAVE TO provide a nice app for controlling it. It's as easy as that.
If you want to deprive yourself of a Mu-so then my suspicion is that it will be your loss. Naim only needs to sell 25,000 of these world wide to double their 2014 sales. I do not think they are trying to be everything to everybody. Maybe if you and 999 of your "Windows only" friends commit to purchasing a Mu-so Naim will spend the $ to build an application to fit your requirements.
And there is the rub. If the percentage of various phone users is applied to muso pucrhases, then windows phone users represents less than 4% of the market. thats the nub of it. Its like asking for a blackberry version.
Like Blackberry did, there are rumours Microsoft is considering finding a way to make Android apps available on Windows Phones.
It would be a pretty desperate move, and have a significantly negative effect on the current Windows App Store. On the other hand as was demonstrated by Microsoft cutting out the cheap loss making or break even Lumia handsets it can't just keep throwing money at the problem and hoping to grow enough share to become relevant to more developers.
I am a windows guy. I have built them on the personal and server level. Heck I even owned a windows phone at one point (and liked it). I run a windows home server at home, too.
With the all that being said, I completely understand why there is no Windows app from Naim. Windows apps are so new and such a small percentage of mobile users That I can see why there is not an app.
A recent report stated that 70% of web traffic in 2014 that originated from mobile devices came from apple devices. The article didn't state figures for Microsoft, but did point out that with the release of Windows 10 this year that Microsoft has the opportunity to get some market share.
I think that's a safe assumption. It's a huge market stuffed full of potential candidates. So no big loss to either Naim or people like me.
As a matter of fact, the naim app runs beautifully on my BlackBerry Passport thanks to access to the Google Play Store via a nifty app called Snap. I borrowed an NDX for a home dem recently, and was fully able to control the player with my phone, up to and including Spotify with no need to buy anything from Apple or Google!
As the Passport has its' own UPnP server built in, I could even play FLAC files direct to the NDX without having to open the naim app.
If only it sounded remotely close to my LP12.....
And there is the rub. If the percentage of various phone users is applied to muso pucrhases, then windows phone users represents less than 4% of the market. thats the nub of it. Its like asking for a blackberry version.
Oh do try to keep up. It's not a phone app that people want. It's a desktop app.
You could attempt to keep up yourself, windows 10 will be cross platform whats available on the phone should in theory be available on the PC. I am running the preview on my main PC and its nice. Cortana is as much use as tits on a fish (or siri) but otherwise its all good.
This problem would go away if naim developed a web interface (non flash)
You could attempt to keep up yourself, windows 10 will be cross platform whats available on the phone should in theory be available on the PC. I am running the preview on my main PC and its nice. Cortana is as much use as tits on a fish (or siri) but otherwise its all good.
This problem would go away if naim developed a web interface (non flash)
It was me that pointed that out about Windows 10 in the 7th post of this thread.
It was your point about Windows Phone only having 4% market share that is distorting because the desktop OS figures are by far in Windows favour.
I think that your point about a web interface is good but I think that the point about platform independent development tools is key.
This problem would go away if naim developed a web interface (non flash)
I think that your point about a web interface is good but I think that the point about platform independent development tools is key.
A pure web interface (HTML / DHTML, even AJAX) won't work - it doesn't support the necessary protocols, it still needs a web server.
+1
on the cross-platform tools.
I have iOS and Android devices but would also love to see a Windows 10 app from Naim.
We are evaluating app options at work and, alongside iOS and Android, I am advising that we also target Windows 10, specifically because of the new universal architecture. A single Windows app can run in Windows 10 running on phones, tablets, laptops, 2-in-1's, desktops, Xbox and even the Raspberry Pi. Previously I would not have even considered this as my teams would have had to create separate apps for Windows Phone, Windows 8 Modern and traditional Win32.
Xamarin was mentioned previously as a cross platform development tool. Similar options are available by developing in common code and deploying to specific platforms using frameworks like Cordova, Ionic, Microsoft's own Web Application Template and more. I don't know what Naim are using for their iOS and Android code bases, but if these are already developed using a cross-platform tool then adding the output of a Windows app may be an easy and inexpensive addition.
Ps. Regarding the cheap Android tablet argument, you can also buy a tablet running full Windows for £69 from Tesco - many people are doing.
...
Ps. Regarding the cheap Android tablet argument, you can also buy a tablet running full Windows for £69 from Tesco - many people are doing.
Now that's an interesting proposition...
Use a USB to S/PDiff converter (i.e. a USB powered sound card for Windows) and connect to the streaming services to which Naim don't have the connectivity.
Use it as a control point for UPnP streaming.
Everything in one place...
Oh, except no UPnP control point application 
.
OK, I just installed Bluestacks and the Naim app.
Win 8.1 then did a massive set of updates (had to be re-started 3 times).
When the PC was stable again I ran the Naim app.
It detected the 'Room' (the ND5 XS) and the UPnP Media Server; but then it wouldn't browse the music. Windows Media player on Windows 7 worked fine.
Windows Media player on Windows 8.1 also wouldn't browse.
Foobar with the UPNP plugin also wouldn't browse on windows 8.1.
I temporarily disabled the Kaspersky firewall (Windows firewall still turned off) - no difference
I then ran Foobar (with UPNP) and Windows firewall popped up an alert - WTF!
Allowing Foobar through the Windows firewall fixed the problem
After the last updates, Windows firewall on Windows 8.1 can now block access from applications even when it's turned off - if you have problems this may be the cause.
Thanks for sharing Huge. WTF indeed
I had windows media player working on my 8.1 laptop. Pity I can’t check, or update, just now coz I am off-shore. But I know the WMP, Foobar, Asset control and Audionet RCP are/were working here. That’s before the Windows updates of course
Flo
Hi Flo,
Could you get Windows Media Player to control the UQ2 through UPnP on Windows 8.1?
For my ND5, I can use Windows Media Player on Windows 7, but on 8.1, it simply won't recognise the ND5 as a PlayTo target. I believe there's been a change in the Windows UPnP library so that it's no longer DLNA 1.5 compliant.
Hi Huge,
Yep I could tell WMP to 'play to' the Qute, worked fine. As I said I am still off-shore so I can not test it if I would update Windows to see if it would still work.
Have you tried Asset Control and/or AudioNet RCP yet? AudioNet is a pure Java app, you don't even have to install it. AudioNet RCP on my setup at home took a long time to 'find' the Qute but ones it had found it it worked very well. Asset control I liked the best but it is a bit buggy on my setup. Your mileage might vary.
Flo
Well I tried Bluestacks, and deleted it when it demanded (despite saying that it was free) that I pay for it or download "sponsored" games (which themselves demand payment to make them work properly).
I now write games and they are genuinely free (under CC+ licence). You can choose to pay for printed material with proper artwork, but all the text and spreadsheet material to play the games is in the free download.
Hi Huge,
Yep I could tell WMP to 'play to' the Qute, worked fine. As I said I am still off-shore so I can not test it if I would update Windows to see if it would still work.
Have you tried Asset Control and/or AudioNet RCP yet? AudioNet is a pure Java app, you don't even have to install it. AudioNet RCP on my setup at home took a long time to 'find' the Qute but ones it had found it it worked very well. Asset control I liked the best but it is a bit buggy on my setup. Your mileage might vary.
Flo
Our Windows 8.1 installs are behaving quite differently (but I do have quite tight security on my main PC and some extra security on my network's external firewall). Having said that, there's nothing sensitive on the Win 8.1 laptop, so that's pretty much left at Kasperky's default security settings.
I have tried AudioNet RCP, and although it can find most of my DLNA servers, which ones it finds is a bit random (the Synology however is consistently there). However, after finding a UPnP server, it's never been able to browse any of them, even when Foobar UPnP can!
AssetControl is next on the list...
Hmm, weird that it finds the UPnP server but it cant browse it.
Pity I am not at home to try things out and compare things with you. All I can say for now is that I have not updated windows lately and that I use very little security. Just the basic Windows stuff (firewall and defender). But it all used to work with Avast as well. Mind you, that did not include extra firewalls. So I no firewall on NAS or router whatsoever. Just the windows one. My NAS is an Asustor, running the UPnP server that came with it. I tried running Asset on the NAS as well and that worked too.
Hope this helps but I doubt it. Sorry
Flo
A lot of debate about the relative merits of computer OS and tablet choice; truth is there will always be a range of devices we want to use. iPad easy if doing nothing else, Mac when surfing/email etc and hp on Windows when working in the evening :-(
Is it really so difficult and costly to write and test a control app for another platform ?
Sonos' unit volumes may be in a different league but Linn offers Kinsky for Windoze, Mac, iPad/iPhone and Android...
Is it really so difficult and costly to write and test a control app for another platform ?
...12mths development & test, 4 platforms, using contractors
1 PM, 1 Lead Dev, 3 Devs; 4 Testers, tools, equipment & environments
Cost: typically about £500,000 - £1M
so yes.
Is it really so difficult and costly to write and test a control app for another platform ?
...12mths development & test, 4 platforms, using contractors
1 PM, 1 Lead Dev, 3 Devs; 4 Testers, tools, equipment & environments
Cost: typically about £500,000 - £1M
so yes.
The question was about one more environment.
The app design has already been done. It is just a platform port so should be much quicker and cheaper.
And wouldn't 60% of resources be Indian or similar 