DAC-free streamer; modular approach

My understanding is that Naim has quite consistently tried to push customers towards integrated streamer-dac solutions. Streamer-free dacs, dac-free streamers and bare servers as separated components of a modular system have never been earnestly supported or support appear to have been discontinued lately.

I personally would be more interested in a new shoebox sized streamer-free dac rather than in a dac-free streamer. And I would also prefer to see UPnP clients running on small open OS based microservers rather than implemented in the firmware of streamer-dac devices. But I understand that a dac-free streamer could be a valuable component of many Naim systems.

A product in this category that -- as far as I can remember -- has not been very much mentioned in this forum is the Sonore Signature Series Rendu. It has received a positive review on Computer Audiophile.

+1, I haven't heard the Aries but I like the look of it and would love to see a Naim equivalent to run inyo my hugo

The separated 'streamer' has been on my wish list for years. The more Naim has proceeded down the Meridian route of adding disparate functionality into single boxes the more frustrated I have become.

I will stick with my NS01 until it fails, at which point I will see what is available and move in a different direction. I do like the look of the Aries, but they have yet to produce the Android app. Bel Canto have bought out their one box solution so that is also on the possible list.

M

I don't See any reason for such a product.

if you go this Road you can use a mac with a Software and you will be more flexible 

IMHO opinion a mac / PC with a software like jriver + jremote is not more or less complicate as a upnp/dlna.

I have the standard Sonore Rendu and it sounds great into an NDAC. I got it as I wanted a DAC to upgrade my CD player as well.

Naim does have "Dac Free" streamer pre-amps, right?

True that the software is getting better and better. Might give JRiver a go.

I'm a PC user out of preference - is there a headless PC which would give a Mac Mini a run for its money?

What's the point of the stand alone streamer when you can connect your NAS or computer to the DAC of your choosing?

Try the Computer Audiophile Pocket Server. Instructions to roll your own on the site, or you can buy one pre-made.  Should be fantastic, with several options for digital or analog out. You could run JRiver directly from the machine with local storage, or from an NAS, and of course get any streaming app you wanted that has a PC version.

I'm using a Zotac id91.

Hi Nick, the main benefit that I consider of having a dedicated unit as opposed to a genereal PC/Mac as a digital source is that the noise levels are usually far lower and this allows for a more stable clock and less jitter for synchronous sources and less interface jitter and conducted RFI on synchronous and asynchronous sources.

Once there is noise introduced in the timing domain it is very difficult to remove it completely, because even the process of removing it can create its own related noise albeit at diminished levels (Cross talk)

Simon

I'm not sure that a computer has these disadvantages if used with DACs that have galvanic isolation (such as Naim's V1 or Chord's 2Cute or HugoTT).

Jude

Jude, galvanic isolation decouples grounds and is primarily to remove earth loops and any differential noise between grounds. It cant remove high frequency noise within the digital signal.

I understand all Naim streamers use galvanic isolation on their non USB digital  inputs and outputs as well. Without it we could get loud hums or buzzing noises when we connect electrical digital leads. Arguably the optimum setup, is to use just one galvanic isolator between source and DAC, as the components used for galvanic sisolation can be a source of signal dependent jitter.

Simon

Why should A DAC-V1 has higher jitter than a streamer?

was says the whitepapers?

I don't know, why should a DAC-V1 have higher jitter than a streamer?

Look forward to your answer, I can't see why it neccessarily should..

Originally Posted by nickpeacock:

nickpeacock, there are a number of resources on specifications for a music server and on how to optimize a Linux / OS X / Windows based server for music replay, for example:

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration

http://www.coreaudiotechnology...c-mini-music-server/

http://www.computeraudiophile....ac-mini-server-9091/

http://www.24bit96.com/usb-com...r-digital-audio.html

A source that I found particularly useful, in particular to get an idea of alternative systems and architectures is

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/index.html

In setting up my dedicated music server, I have cursory read these and other sources but eventually decided to start with a very simplistic approach. My idea was to get a basic system up and running in a few hours and refine later if I was not satisfied. So far I have not felt any need to improve but I would be interested in testing my system against more sophisticated solutions. I have selected hardware and software according to the following guidelines:

- Hardware: fanless, low energy, open OS certified, small (black) aluminium case (I have used a Fit-PC3)

- BIOS: disabled power-savings features

- OS: minimal Debian netinstall: no X, no file server, ... only 4 packages from the sound repository: alsa-base, alsa-utils, flac and mpd (the actual music player) ... but not forget to install ssh to be able to access the server from another machine.

- MPD configuration: according to the MPD documentation and to http://lacocina.nl/audiophile-mpd

This system has been running meanwhile for almost two years. All system upgrades and maintenance have been done via remote login, I have had no need to connect a monitor or a keyboard to the server since December 2013.

If you do not want to go through the process of installing and setting up a server yourself, there are a number of ready-to-use solutions, of course. Examples that come to my mind are the Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player, the Vortexbox appliances and, as already suggested, the Computer Audiophile Pocket Server family.

Best, nbpf

I connected mine with j river to my Hugo, it was not ss good as my qute connected to Hugo

Hi Ragman,

I have a deep distaste for Apple and wouldn't touch their product. That said I HAVE  got excellent results by building and modding PCs, but they have come at a usability cost. In effect I have ended up with a digital turntable. This is where I will take my hat off to Naim and others who have got excellent sound quality and been able to retain a fully functioning Operating System.

I like products that are designed to do one thing excellently (within reason). One of the reasons I have always disliked Meridian is that I have seen their products as being designed to lock you in. When I saw Naim moving in a similar direction I was saddened.

The current inclusion of the stream renderer within the pre-amp does have a certain logic .....but, I have long since moved away from Naim for my main music system amplification, and so I will not be retaining a Naim digital front end beyond the lifetime of my NS01 .....unless, they produce a British (sic) Aurelic Aries, in which case I will be listening and deciding.

M

I honestly do not know but if you browse the forum you will find competent advice and opinions on this subject. I have found it diffficult to setup significant experiments.

In my specific case the nDAC was there. Thus, on the dac side, my options were electrical SPDIF or optical SPDIF. On the server (Fit-PC3) side the options were electrical SPDIF and USB. I have assumed the electrical SPDIF of the server would be noisy and I have played a bit around with USB to SPDIF converters. At the moment I use the following setup

Fit-PC3 -> Supra USB cable > M2tech hiFace Evo > Naim DC1 > Naim nDAC

both the Fit-PC3 and the M2tech hiFace Evo are powered by TP PSUs. I have meanwhile bought a Meridian Explorer (about 200 EUR) for occasional headphone listening on my laptop and I think I would be perfectly happy if I would replace the subchain

Supra USB cable > M2tech hiFace Evo > Naim DC1

with just

Meridian Explorer > optical SPDIF cableM2tech hiFace Evo

This would also free the TP PSU for the M2tech hiFace Evo. I often watch concerts through the Digital Concert Hall on an iMac. In this case the iMac's optical SPDIF output is directly connected to the nDAC. I have tried to connect via the Explorer (attached to one of the USB ports of the iMac) and, from there, via the same optical SPDIF cable, to the nDAC. For the music streamed via DCH I do not notice any audible difference but, again, I am not good at this kind of comparisons.

Many Mac Mini are reported to have a good optical SPDIF output. If you go the Mac Mini way and you have a dac with optical SPDIF inputs, you could start from there.

I very much would like to see Naim producing a pure server with high quality (USB, electrical + optical SPDIF) outputs and a pure dac with high quality (USB, electrical + optical) inputs. With these componenents and, as you were suggesting, a dac-free streamer, one could consistently test the different options.

Sorry, maybe I missunderstood your post.

I undestood that you think a DAC with a PC as sourch on a async. USB would have more jitter than a streamer by upnp.