A Strange NAS Problem.

Posted by: tonym on 23 March 2015

I recently bought a QNAP HS251 NAS, primarily to store movies to stream via PLEX & Amazon Fire TV to our TVs. However, as we spend half our time in another location I thought it would be handy, given that I normally cart a HD drive around, to be able to access my music collection remotely.

 

I've hit a peculiar problem. Having (so I thought) imported all my music into my QNAP from my existing iTunes library on my iMac's attached HD, I've only just realised that although the artist folders have downloaded, those from A to S don't contain the music files/tracks, yet those from T to Z are correctly populated. This has completely foxed me. 

When I imported initially, I selected "Folder" rather than "File" from the upload menu, and selected the iTunes Music folder. I then left it to upload without interruption. If I open each folder and upload the individual tracks that works fine, then move them into the folder on the QNAP, but it'd be a nightmare to have to do this for each file.

 

It really doesn't make sense. All permissions etc. are set correctly. Anyone got a clue?

Posted on: 25 March 2015 by Phil Harris
Originally Posted by blythe:
 
Don't you just hate it when Poltergeists get into things?
 
Computers are supposed to work on basic logic, or ones and zeros. How come they often say "maybe"?
 
Eight hours with no power is most unfortunate! 
 

 

I've never seen a computer say 'maybe'...

 

Computers either 'do' or 'don't' and if they 'don't' then they don't for a reason - if that reason isn't obvious to the user then it may seem like something random or unfathomable but it isn't.

 

I'd love to perpetuate the myth that we 'techie networky people' are blessed with some mystic power that mere mortals cannot comprehend (and I'm sure that if I could then this would be very useful at salary review time) but the simple fact is that computers and networks are inherently pretty simple things ... they just do lots of really simple things very very quickly and in doing so look like they're doing complicated things.

 

Computers and networks (and the problems that occur with them) are usually pretty easy to diagnose if you're logical, methodical and don't get scared ...

 

Damn ... there's me just blown any God-like mystique and status that I may have had...

 

Phil

Posted on: 25 March 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Originally Posted by Phil Harris:
.. networks (and the problems that occur with them) are usually pretty easy to diagnose if you're logical, methodical and don't get scared ...

Hmm yes and no.. The biggest challenge in network debugging (and I am not really talking home networks here) are the vagaries caused by human error, software error and inconsistency which can make it rather challanging to diagnose.. kind of like cryptic crosswords ...(I think the poltergeist reference is rather good) alas in real life us 'techie' people have to deal in a world  that is far from certain... Which of course can make it 'interesting' ... and if it was simple my CCIE engineers would be a lot cheaper to come by . Computers/networks and certainties tend only belong in the beginner text books..

Posted on: 25 March 2015 by nbpf
Originally Posted by tonym:

I recently bought a QNAP HS251 NAS, primarily to store movies to stream via PLEX & Amazon Fire TV to our TVs. However, as we spend half our time in another location I thought it would be handy, given that I normally cart a HD drive around, to be able to access my music collection remotely.

 

I've hit a peculiar problem. Having (so I thought) imported all my music into my QNAP from my existing iTunes library on my iMac's attached HD, I've only just realised that although the artist folders have downloaded, those from A to S don't contain the music files/tracks, yet those from T to Z are correctly populated. This has completely foxed me. 

When I imported initially, I selected "Folder" rather than "File" from the upload menu, and selected the iTunes Music folder. I then left it to upload without interruption. If I open each folder and upload the individual tracks that works fine, then move them into the folder on the QNAP, but it'd be a nightmare to have to do this for each file.

 

It really doesn't make sense. All permissions etc. are set correctly. Anyone got a clue?

No clue but if you want to understand what happens, I suggest you first try to reproduce the problem on a smaller scale. Ideally, one in which two folders are to be uploaded to the QNAP and only one actually gets transferred. If you are not able to reproduce the problem on two folders, there is a good chance that the program you use to transfer the data is misbehaving. If you manage to consistently reproduce the problem, then there is a chance you can identify differences in file types, permissions, time stamps, etc. I have very little experience with iTunes but I seem to remeber that the iTunes music (or media) folder might or might not actually contain the data itself, it depends on the import options you had set when you imported the files. iTunes is one of the worst (less understandable, most inefficient, ...) programs I came across, I would not be very surprised if it was the cause of the problem. Have you tried to copy two of the folders -- one that gets uploaded and one that does not -- from the iTunes media folder to whatever drive with plain "cp" or "rsync" from the command line ? Does this work for both folders ? Good luck, nbpf

Posted on: 25 March 2015 by fatcat

Tony.

 

Have you tried Netbak Replicator,

 

It's a QNAP program for backing up files to the NAS. I don't use it to auto backup, I manually select files to backup when required. It's dead easy and very quick, it compares the contents of the folder requiring backup with the contents of the folder on NAS and copies the missing data.

Posted on: 26 March 2015 by tonym
Originally Posted by nbpf:
Originally Posted by tonym:

I recently bought a QNAP HS251 NAS, primarily to store movies to stream via PLEX & Amazon Fire TV to our TVs. However, as we spend half our time in another location I thought it would be handy, given that I normally cart a HD drive around, to be able to access my music collection remotely.

 

I've hit a peculiar problem. Having (so I thought) imported all my music into my QNAP from my existing iTunes library on my iMac's attached HD, I've only just realised that although the artist folders have downloaded, those from A to S don't contain the music files/tracks, yet those from T to Z are correctly populated. This has completely foxed me. 

When I imported initially, I selected "Folder" rather than "File" from the upload menu, and selected the iTunes Music folder. I then left it to upload without interruption. If I open each folder and upload the individual tracks that works fine, then move them into the folder on the QNAP, but it'd be a nightmare to have to do this for each file.

 

It really doesn't make sense. All permissions etc. are set correctly. Anyone got a clue?

No clue but if you want to understand what happens, I suggest you first try to reproduce the problem on a smaller scale. Ideally, one in which two folders are to be uploaded to the QNAP and only one actually gets transferred. If you are not able to reproduce the problem on two folders, there is a good chance that the program you use to transfer the data is misbehaving. If you manage to consistently reproduce the problem, then there is a chance you can identify differences in file types, permissions, time stamps, etc. I have very little experience with iTunes but I seem to remeber that the iTunes music (or media) folder might or might not actually contain the data itself, it depends on the import options you had set when you imported the files. iTunes is one of the worst (less understandable, most inefficient, ...) programs I came across, I would not be very surprised if it was the cause of the problem. Have you tried to copy two of the folders -- one that gets uploaded and one that does not -- from the iTunes media folder to whatever drive with plain "cp" or "rsync" from the command line ? Does this work for both folders ? Good luck, nbpf

Hi nbpf,

 

I wasn't trying to copy the iTunes library, I was using the QNAP's uploading facility within it's file handling section to transfer the actual music folders. Trying on a smaller scale was unsuccessful, even trying one folder it merely transferred the folder & not the music files inside. I can select the individual files within the folder & they'll upload OK.

 

Phil's solution works fine & that'll do for me. But, again, I'm puzzled as to why when first I tried this uploading process for the whole music folder the folders & their music from A to S didn't transfer, yet those from T to Z did.

 

A prize for the solution!

Posted on: 26 March 2015 by tonym
Originally Posted by fatcat:

Tony.

 

Have you tried Netbak Replicator,

 

It's a QNAP program for backing up files to the NAS. I don't use it to auto backup, I manually select files to backup when required. It's dead easy and very quick, it compares the contents of the folder requiring backup with the contents of the folder on NAS and copies the missing data.

Hi Mr fatcat,

 

I use a Buffalo NAS, located in another part of the building, to back up everything on computer & HD, using Time Machine. Plus I've a separate HD, everything backed up with Carbon Copy Cloner, that I keep off the premises.

Posted on: 27 March 2015 by blythe
Originally Posted by Phil Harris:
Originally Posted by blythe:
 
Don't you just hate it when Poltergeists get into things?
 
Computers are supposed to work on basic logic, or ones and zeros. How come they often say "maybe"?
 
Eight hours with no power is most unfortunate! 
 

 

I've never seen a computer say 'maybe'...

 

Computers either 'do' or 'don't' and if they 'don't' then they don't for a reason - if that reason isn't obvious to the user then it may seem like something random or unfathomable but it isn't.

 

I'd love to perpetuate the myth that we 'techie networky people' are blessed with some mystic power that mere mortals cannot comprehend (and I'm sure that if I could then this would be very useful at salary review time) but the simple fact is that computers and networks are inherently pretty simple things ... they just do lots of really simple things very very quickly and in doing so look like they're doing complicated things.

 

Computers and networks (and the problems that occur with them) are usually pretty easy to diagnose if you're logical, methodical and don't get scared ...

 

Damn ... there's me just blown any God-like mystique and status that I may have had...

 

Phil

As far as I can tell, I can start a computer, run a program and shut the computer down. Later that day, I can start the same computer, run the same program and it crashes.... That's what I mean by "maybe"!
Thankfully, since buying a Mac, this instances have virtually ceased :-)