Streaming from Mac

Posted by: Wheretonow on 31 March 2015

I've read the Phil Harris article of 20 December 2014 and have a partial understanding.  Please appreciate that most Naim users are simple folk from walks of life other than IT. They cannot be expected to interpret much of the technical conversations that develop over the various issues troubling owners, particular when Naim manuals quite clearly say that various items of Naim equipment can do this and that by pushing buttons etc and loading software Onto computers. Nowhere do the manuals alert users to the potential downfalls and apparent instability in the operation of Naim equipment.  It is probably the case that Bentley owners, as we all aspire to be, get immediate warranty attention when system problems occur in motor vehicle audio equipment.  Enough of that.  MY PROBLEM SINCE PURCHASE 5 weeks ago.  Please can you provide simple comments that are helpful.

 

I have wirelessly connected to my router:

-Ipad

-mac computer

-Cannon air printer

-Naim Uniti 2

 

I have installed "Asset" software onto the Mac.  This shows that asset recognises some 1500 tracks in itunes (After appropriate configuration) on my computer.

 

the UNITI 2 rarely finds the UPNP "asset".  When it does, it is able to show all those 1500 tracks in albums listed alphabetically.

When one track is selected it invariably plays for approx 1 minute then stops with the message " unable to browse" or words similar.  The list of albums is still shown but none are playable.

 

If another input is selected (Radio or an analogue source) followed then by selection of UPNP, none can be found.

 

Can you advise whether or not:

 

1 This is an issue caused by an inadequate router (supplied by ISP )

 

2 Some failing on my part to identify some crucial setting in Asset or the Mac

 

3 Naim claim in manuals that music can be streamed wirelessly from Mac and Windows computers is really a false claim

 

4 Ethernet cable from Uniti to router will fix problem

 

5 Ethernet cable from Uniti to router and from Mac to router is required to fix problem

 

6 Something else is necessary.

 

Please note that there is no issue with physical impediments to wireless transmission in my house.

 

One further comment is that I have found only Manual Issue no. 6 appropriate at the time of software version 3.13.xx.  As software is now into version 4..... Is there in fact a later manual with different instructions?

 

Regards

Rob Bendeich

 

 

 

 

 

Posted on: 31 March 2015 by WilcoFT
Hi Rob,

Perhaps try connecting your Uniti 2 and your Mac with Ethernet cables to see if things work properly.  If they do, then you'll know its likely a wifi connection issue. 

As for question 1, it's difficult to answer when you haven't told us what the router is.

Lastly, while people here are always glad to help, I'd suggest your dealer also has a part to play in this.

Regards,

Jeff
Posted on: 31 March 2015 by garyi
Put simply macs a crap with upnp and streaming.* You have two choices directly connect the mac with a digital cable or get a network attached storage device.


* i have used macs pretty much exclusively since 1991. They do not make good servers of anything including upnp unless you go down apples proprietary route
Posted on: 31 March 2015 by Bart
Originally Posted by Wat:

I also think your dealer should help.  

 I think that this should be your start, Rob.  A good dealer will both want to, and actually do it -- figure out what's going wrong and get you up and running.

 

As you've undoubtedly read here on the forum already, wifi in the home often is not reliable for this use. On top of that, the routers supplied by ISP's often are the worst routers available.  Their wifi can be weak, and their power to handle data coming in and out can be compromised.  You've got wifi twice, from your Mac to the router and then from the router to the Uniti.  That's asking a lot; too much very likely.

 

As a first trouble-shooting step, I would run an ethernet cable from your Uniti to your router, and from your Mac to your router, just to see what that changes.

 

The next piece of solid advice is to purchase an unmanaged switch (Netgear, for example) to put between your home router and any other wired devices.  And I would want the server, in this case your Mac, wired not on wifi.

 

Both of those changes will give you a much more robust network.

 

If you MUST use wifi, I would install a very high quality wifi router and disable the wifi on the home (ISP) router.  This is what the high-end custom installers do.  There have been some suggestions here over time for brands. Because you have a Mac already . . . I would try an Apple Airport Extreme.  I have had VERY good luck with them in my home.  This is not where the custom installers would go, but it's very easy to set up and in the experience of many including me it provides a powerful wifi signal; much better than ISP routers.  If your home is big, you can even install two and they 'talk to' each other and boost each other seamlessly. (That's what I do, and I get my full ISP speed over wifi even down in my underground basement.)

 

As Gary wrote above, using a desktop Mac (or Macbook) as a server is not the best solution either.  They want to go to sleep.  They are just not configured to stay running the way a server needs to.  I think it unlikely that you'll ever be fully satisfied trying to use a Mac as a server unless you configure it very specifically.

Posted on: 31 March 2015 by Damon

Wheretonow,

 

I think I had similar problems with the connections. Either the streamer was not found, or the UPnP server was not found. The system should work reliably with wireless links, and Mac or PC should not be an issue. There is no proprietary Mac UPnP software, but most use Asset. I did, and though I thought it was not as good as Playback (discontinued) I found it better than the other options. I simply adjusted the energy saving settings on my mac, and the issue of going to sleep disappeared. 

 

My connection reliability improved when I connected my UQ to the router with ethernet; this way I had wireless only from iMac to router. I also found Asset had better success finding all my albums and artwork, or the Naim App seemed to be happier when I conveyed my music files to AIFF format; as that is a Mac format for uncompressed files, it is not unreasonable that it will be less problematic. 

 

The 'get a new router' advice is common, but I don't know anything about the capabilities of various items. It may be valid advice, but that also should be part of the pre-sale commentary. 

 

I don't worry about tracking down Hi-Res files; I'm satisfied, for the moment, with CD quality. So, one other option is to get an Airport Extreme or Airport Express. This allows you to use the Remote App, which you may like. The the airport is connected to the Uniti with an optical cable. The airports are not expensive, and may be worth a try if you are content with 16 bit streaming. 

 

Finally, I do agree very much that the Naim equipment is sold with the promise of reliable wifi connections and streaming, and that there is virtually no guidance or documentation to help buyers with this set up. I think the others are correct in expecting the dealer to help with resolving these problems, or at least diagnosing the situation in your house. 

Posted on: 31 March 2015 by WilcoFT
I've seen a few posts in this thread and others asserting that Macs are crappy UPNP servers, or crappy UPNP servers because they want to go to sleep.  This is not true.  I am using a 2006 MacBook as both a UPNP and backup server.  I run it headless, it's set to never go to sleep, and I've had zero issues streaming for the last three months, since I set up Minim Server.   It takes half a minute to go into System Preferences and the Energy Saver pane to tell the computer not to sleep.

I am not asserting that a dedicated NAS is or isn't a better solution, just that a Mac can be made to function as a reliable UPNP server with a bit of effort.

Is AirPlay easier to configure than UPNP?  Yes.  But both work just fine once configured.
Posted on: 31 March 2015 by Bart

Wilco you certainly CAN (and you have) configured a Mac to work headless as a server, but such often is incompatible with people also wanting to use it as a general purpose home computer, having their kids use it, etc etc.  The original poster did not say so, but I assumed it's a general-use computer that he's also tasked to be his UPnP server.  

Posted on: 31 March 2015 by garyi

Wilco you are to be commended for getting a mac working for you, however I expect even you would acknowledge a 10 year old macbook was never designed back int he day or today to act as a server, its simply not what a macbook is for.

 

For your solution you have something very slow and very buly doing what a 200 quid NAS could do far far better.

 

If anyone is interested there are extremely cheap solutions out there. If where it lives is not in line of site, then you can configure a bloody good server the match of a small business one for less than 200 quid. Running an extremely robust linux variant (OpenMediaVault) you will land up with a server running 24/7 with as much if not more choice and options than a NAS at twice the price.

 

If you must run a mac, then the mini makes the logical choice. But frankly the eco system for UPNP and macs simply does not exist, its at best flaky.

 

 

Posted on: 31 March 2015 by WilcoFT

Hi Gary,

 

Of course the MacBook wasn't designed as a server, that was my point.  I'm not suggesting that anyone go out and buy an old laptop to use as a server, my point was that I'm using a nine year old Mac as a server and it works fine.  Also, since it's a laptop, it's power consumption is relatively low.  I already had the computer, so I've repurposed it.

 

You are asserting that Macs can't be used as UPnP servers, I'm saying the opposite, based on my experience.  11 years ago if you'd asked me about UPnP and a Mac, I'd have agreed with you, based on my experience, then.

 

Remember, the OP is trying to get his system working based on what he already owns.  I'm trying to assist him.  There may well be better options, but I'd say he should get things working first, then look for other solutions, including, possibly, a NAS. 

 

I've read the arguments in favour of a NAS, why one shouldn't use a general purpose computer, etc. and they make sense to me, but it's not always possible for everyone to adopt the ideal solution to a given problem.

 

Jeff

Posted on: 31 March 2015 by andarkian

Not sure what any of this kit was apparently designed for. I only have a Muso and can draw no comparisons between it and a Uniti Qute but I can assure you that if I had the amount of connectivity issues being expressed above it would have gone pretty quickly. There is no justification in this day and age for poor wifi connectivity in the majority of households and why you should experience UPnP issues is also baffling.

 

I can easily connect the Muso via wifi (I am not interested in any other means) to my MacBook Air, my HP PC, and my Synology NAS. My wifi speed is about 53 Mbps from my bog standard Sky router so could cope with anything I can throw at it, but hasn't had to so far. Today it was FLAC from my HP laptop, but mainly 320kbps from Spotify on my MacBook Air. If I could be bothered with the cost of Qobuz or Tidal I have no doubt my system would handle those also with ease. As for having to use Ethernet cabling, well.... that is so 1999.

Posted on: 31 March 2015 by Wheretonow

Many thanks for the variety of input from you all.  Food for thought. Of course I have contacted the seller who is a very reputable sydney company. Their input really depends on a face to face meeting with my piece of equipment to avoid conflicting comments as have been made over the phone.  All in good time as I am not conveniently located for that to happen.  

 

Ill update you all when I resolve issue to my satisfaction.

Posted on: 31 March 2015 by Wheretonow

When I commenced this stream some 12 hours ago I referred to the simple folk.   I can now inform you all that I am one of the extraordinarily very simple having come to realise, thanks to some of the replies, that when the computer sleeps it shuts down the connection!!!  Energy Saving manipulations on the Mac (desk top about 1 yr old)  fixed all in my circumstances.  Nothing wrong with Naim, Asset, ISP router or wifi transmission. 

Thanks again and sorry to have caused such time wasting for you all.  I guess the solution is so obvious to people playing with such stuff that it is beneath a manual to suggest owners keep the computer awake.   I'm now available in the village stocks for ridicule and torment.

 

Posted on: 31 March 2015 by Kevin Richardson
Originally Posted by Wheretonow:

When I commenced this stream some 12 hours ago I referred to the simple folk.   I can now inform you all that I am one of the extraordinarily very simple having come to realise, thanks to some of the replies, that when the computer sleeps it shuts down the connection!!!  Energy Saving manipulations on the Mac (desk top about 1 yr old)  fixed all in my circumstances.  Nothing wrong with Naim, Asset, ISP router or wifi transmission. 

Thanks again and sorry to have caused such time wasting for you all.  I guess the solution is so obvious to people playing with such stuff that it is beneath a manual to suggest owners keep the computer awake.   I'm now available in the village stocks for ridicule and torment.

 

Try JRiver.