Used NDS 2013
Posted by: timoth on 31 March 2015
Thinking of buying a used NDS that is model year 2013. Any changes from a brand new 2015 model? Also, any issue with future upgrades and will Naim support by way of firmware upgrades?
Regards,
Firmware upgrades are available to all, regardless of whether you buy used or new. That NDS, if it's not been upgraded to the latest firmware, certainly can be.
Having said that - I'd ask the seller to do the firmware upgrade before selling it to you - he can probably still have his dealer do it.
Just in case you brick it....
No changes - firmware upgrades are always possible and advisable.
A 2013 model will be identical to a new model, apart from being run it. The only changes have been firmware and you can easily do this yourself.
No changes - firmware upgrades are always possible and advisable.
Well, no changes that WE have been told about. Doesn't mean that there haven't been tweaks to it since release but we're typically not told about these as it helps maintain resale value...
The fault 36 rendered the buttons on the actual unit unfunctional &the screen did not display any info other than fault 36. Only operational via ipad app in other words.
Irritating to say the least on a 6k piece of kit!
Conacted Nain &they sent a temporary fix option which involved swapping the flash files with the ones used for the NDX.
The temp fix did get the NDS working however I traded an NDX in for my NDS so I felt like I was being cheated somewhat with a "lower" (for want of better desciption) standard of processing if you will by using the NDX files instead.
May I say that when working properly it is a fantastic piece of kit but just beware of this issue beforehand.
Not having updated to firmware 4.1 I v.much hope it with correctly fix this issue when I finally unbox my gear at the new house.
Does anybody who has had Fault 36 issues similar to me tell me if the new firmware flash is successful?
There is a specific DSP file that Naim can provide you that is meant to cure the Fault 36 issue. It cured it for me. You can contact Phil Harris who works for Naim and posts here relatively often.
I do not know if it's built into the latest firmware or not.
There is a specific DSP file that Naim can provide you that is meant to cure the Fault 36 issue. It cured it for me. You can contact Phil Harris who works for Naim and posts here relatively often.
I do not know if it's built into the latest firmware or not.
2014 vintage NDS, never had Fault 36 with current firmware or immediately previous version.
It did clear the fault & this is how i was using the unit up till i packed it up for the move. But as i mentioned the instructions Naim sent me were to swap out the NDS DSP file (in the root of the firmware update software package) with the NDX DSP file.
Therefore my NDS was (is) effectively running the DSP meant for the NDX.
Do the NDX & NDS run exactly the same processing files?
Somehow i figured the NDS would have its own specific DSP files tailored to it
I would expect quite a price drop for an old NDS since arival of 272, which sounds better to me than NDS. I wonder if the new 272 might be a much better buy. Certainly wouldn't pay more for NDS 555PS than price of new 272.
If have seen this type of statement before and it amazes me a bit. As I would expect the NDS being a higher priced device to sound better, especially when combined with a 555PS. I understand everything about evolvement of technology for streaming etc, but still I would guess we then get an upgrade offer for the NDS as well if it would be true... I would be very interested to hear the two besides each other myself.
Just let your own ears be the judge. Some think a Hugo wipes the floor with an NDS and it obviously does - for them. As long as we are each happy with our choices.
It did clear the fault & this is how i was using the unit up till i packed it up for the move. But as i mentioned the instructions Naim sent me were to swap out the NDS DSP file (in the root of the firmware update software package) with the NDX DSP file.
Therefore my NDS was (is) effectively running the DSP meant for the NDX.
Do the NDX & NDS run exactly the same processing files?
Somehow i figured the NDS would have its own specific DSP files tailored to it
Be sure to check back with Phil.
My experience -- installing the "fix" much later than you did -- is that I was told to drop the DSP file into a folder within the "NDS" folders of the updater package. The updater package has separate folders for various Naim devices, and it looks like the updater software knows what device is being updated and pulls the files from the appropriate folder.
Thus far, the special DSP file has not been over-written by later updates. At least that's what I think -- as opposed to later updates overwriting with a DSP file that does not cause the Fault 36 file. Again, maybe Phil can comment without revealing any national secrets ;-)
Allen, I tend to agree with you.. And not only pre/power but also speakers.. These can make a huge difference on the perception of components.
Indeed 
Hi
I think Wat is 100% correct. Everybody should put their NDS 555PS for sale, irrespective of year obviously, for about 3 grand. And out of my own generosity I maybe willing to take them off their hands.
Ray
My kids, when I had a Nait XS, would sometimes plug their iPhones into the front mini jack. My SN2 doesn't have one of those, and they'd probably use Bluetooth if it were on my NDS.
Hi
I think Wat is 100% correct.
Ray
I wouldn't go that far ....
Things were much simpler in the days of a CDX2 into Nait 5. You were 100% correct in those days, sorry to hear that time has stunted your omnificence.
<there obviously should be a suitable smiley somewhere in this post>
SJB
I see nothing wrong with Naim bringing out a less expensive product that betters an existing product. This is what Chord has done with Hugo.
I see nothing wrong with that either but it must be a first from Naim.. if the NAC 272 is that good!
I seriously doubt the 272 outperforms a NDS w/2x555 DR power supplies and 552.
Cue mumblings & grumblings of dissent among the loyal ranks...
I shall observe with interest....
I seriously doubt the 272 outperforms a NDS w/2x555 DR power supplies and 552.
Why? Interested to read what you & others think when you hear it. I think it's Naim's excellent reaction to next generation DACs from rivals which took digital replay to a higher level. Naim had to improve on its digital players and it has imho. I'm sure Naim will offer upgrades for existing streamers.
If I hadn't heard the NAC N272 with my own ears then I too would have had your doubts.
However, I'm sure the 272 designers were not asked: please don't make it sound better than NDS.
I think I've said enough ..... it's up to those interested to listen to 272 & draw their own conclusions
I would never begrudge another forum member their opinion, but from everything I've read here so far, the comparison method described here is not exactly rigorous. Wat, for example, compares two setups using Focal speakers. Were they the same models, or even same room? Were the volume levels matched? Am not trying to pick on Wat, and I have said before that I enjoy reading his contributions to this forum very much. But comparisons such as these are not easy to do, and they become meaningless when there is more than one variable involved.
Andrew Everhard's review offers an alternative opinion in his HFN review, but his review also leaves quite a bit to our imaginations. Also, there are Naim dealers who quoted as saying the 272's preamp section is closer to a 282 than a 202. I assumed they were simply repeating what Naim had told them, but who knows. I think we can all agree those preamp models are pretty far from what a 552 can deliver.
There are two things I am pretty sure of. First, the NDS is over three years old, and in that time, I would hope that Naim has learned more about delivering high sound quality at lower price points. If as Andrew says, a 272/555PS can deliver 80% of an NDS/555PS's sound quality, then Naim is to be congratulated for bringing such great sound to more affordable levels! Unfortunately, we do not know which preamp was used in his comparison. Perhaps Andrew will see this thread and comment? I hope so. The other thing I am pretty sure of is that the 272, like every other product, is built to a price point. And as with every other Naim product, I believe that ultimately the general opinion will become: 1) you get what you pay for, and 2) you get more for your money now than you did three years ago.
As far as a 272 sounding better than an NDS/2x555PS into a Statement, well, perhaps we should not forget that there are also some who still prefer a chrome bumper Nait over anything more modern. Others prefer older CD players to anything current that streams. These are valid, but again, highly subjective preferences (and we all have them to one degree or another).
When it comes to posting comparative opinions, I believe the right thing to do is to consistently use language such as "I prefer" or the acronym IMO. Otherwise, more casual readers of this forum might mistake a post (or an individual opinion that is often repeated across many posts) as a more widely held opinion or, even worse, an accepted fact.
ATB.
Hook
That's a start, but it would be more useful if the poster were to describe the aspects of sound reproduction or his reactions to the music (a better indicator, IMB) that are improved with the new component. For instance, there often seems to be a trade-off between immediate engagement with the music and depth of insight. I prefer depth, others may prefer immediacy. There is also listening ease, capacity to play at low volume and maintain interest, amongst others. Simply stating "I prefer" doesn't tell me anything unless I know the criteria on which the preference is based. It's the same really as any other area (wine, cars, partners...).
Jan
Hook,
Wise words! I fully agree.
P.S. The 272 is arriving soon in the Netherlands and I hope to audit it against 172XS under equal conditions in my living room later this month.
Happy Easter,
Bert