Unity Serve dead, age 1.

Posted by: andrew0810 on 12 April 2015

Last week my US broke down. 12 months old. Not quite what I was expecting, regarding the price tag...

Never mind, it's at the dealer already, and fortunatelity I made a backup recently...

But one thought came to my mind, after reading a lot of comments here: does Naim already have too  many irons in the fire, so that quality control starts to suffer? They throw new gear on the market in rather high frequency, like hardly affordable flagship amps, speakers and cables (cables! Naim didn't care about cable-hysteria  for years - but today they are in the Nordost-league...), car hifi, streamers, multi-function-products, all kind of lower-price stuff and obviously they have someone troubles with their software-development. Is Naim still on the right track? We can read a lot about Hugo and Sonos here. For some good reason? Where are you going to Naim? 

Posted on: 15 April 2015 by ChrisH

Just to add a balancing perspective, as a Unitiserve owner since 2011, I am a happy customer.

I had a power supply issue a few years ago which was quickly resolved by my dealer and Naim, and apart from that, no issues whatsoever.

Sure, the HD will fail some time, but it will also in my NAS, so that's just life, nothing different with a US.

It does what it said in the description when I bought it, and seamlessly integrates into the way I access my music.

It also allowed me to effortlessly make the switch from streaming without any concerns whether or not it would work within my system/network, tagging issues, etc

As ashrafs said, the web interface is not that great, but I use it 99% of the time via nServe, which is absolutely fine for what I need it to do.

 

Theres been many a debate on here about the worth of a Unitiserve, and whilst there are many ways to do the same thing, at cheaper prices, the convenience and reliability suit me perfectly for my needs.

Its good to have that choice available to us as consumers though, and for those that need better / different software, hardware or whatever, it's a personal choice.

 

and to come back to the OP,are Naim spreading themselves too thinly, and is the Unitiserve a product too far?

I would say that although we haven't seen any recent development on the Unitiserve, if streaming is the direction the market is moving, a Unitiserve fits perfectly in the portfolio, even as it is today, for those that want a 'system'.

Sure, the more technically competent customers can go their own way, but if this 'gap' isn't catered for in the range, Naim aren't able to offer a system for customers.

 

Just my opinion anyway!

 

 

Posted on: 15 April 2015 by DavidDever
Originally Posted by Noogle:

Remember that the embedded versions of Windows XP have different lifecycles and support cycles to standard Windows XP.  I don't know which version of Windows Embedded the UnitiServe runs, but if it is Windows XP Embedded Service Pack 3 (SP3) then it is supported by Microsoft until Jan 12 2016.  If it is Windows Embedded Standard 2009 then it is Jan 8 2019.  (I don't think it is likely to be the latter though, as AFAICR the US was launched in 2009).  See https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/lifewinembed

 

Even if the operating system is no longer supported by Microsoft that is not the end of the world, as an embedded system typically has a few fixed modes of operation, with lower complexity than a standard PC.  If it's running OK on Jan 12 2016 it is unlikely to stop working on Jan 13 2016.  However, you can imagine a security hole being discovered which permits an attack via Ethernet, USB etc. 

8 Jan 2024 is the new cutoff date for Embedded Standard 2009 general availability and support, per MS; 30 Jan 2017 for XPe. It is fairly trivial to update an XPe image for WES 2009, and there are still licenses floating around.

Posted on: 15 April 2015 by Rustyneedle

ChrisH

   +1
  I,like you,am an advocate of the Unitiserve and feel it has its place in the Naim product range.
But the signs are not good,people in general have become more confident with the technology and found cheaper,and possibly more reliable alternatives they are comfortable with.
Naim have allowed the Unitiserve to gather dust,putting development resources elsewhere ,it's served its purpose and unfortunately will be forgotten about.
Naim,at some point,will see it a suitable time to discontinue it.
Those that have them will cash in while they can,Naim will say they're are no longer supporting it, and others,like me,will have another piece of redundant technology that has seen its day.
R.I.P.

 

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Rustyneedle

Noogle 

DavidDever

   

Interesting,does this mean that Naim will have to 'put their cards on the table',sometime soon?

 

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by ChrisH
Originally Posted by Rustyneedle:
Those that have them will cash in while they can,Naim will say they're are no longer supporting it, and others,like me,will have another piece of redundant technology that has seen its day.
R.I.P. 

Hopefully that wont be the case Rustyneedle.

Based on Naim's record for supporting heritage products I cant imagine they would not do their utmost to support going forward and wouldnt just cut loose existing customers.

Maybe there will be something new that comes along, but as long as Naim streamers use UPnP, the Unitiserve is still valid.

I still dont see the US as redundant technology anytime soon - it will continue to function as an integral part of my system at any rate, serving to my NDX!

 

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Focalist

I would not go to Dell or HP for an amplifier so why would you go to Naim for what is effectively a computer in a Naim box. Naim for amps, dedicated server company for the server (plus they are cheaper too!)

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Bananahead

I didn't know that Dell and HP made amplifiers.

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
Originally Posted by Bananahead:

I didn't know that Dell and HP made amplifiers.

Hewlett Packard did. That would be the Barney Oliver (below). Dell does, but it's for graphics.

 

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Bart
Originally Posted by Rustyneedle:

ChrisH

   +1
  I,like you,am an advocate of the Unitiserve and feel it has its place in the Naim product range.
But the signs are not good,people in general have become more confident with the technology and found cheaper,and possibly more reliable alternatives they are comfortable with.
Naim have allowed the Unitiserve to gather dust,putting development resources elsewhere ,it's served its purpose and unfortunately will be forgotten about.
Naim,at some point,will see it a suitable time to discontinue it.
Those that have them will cash in while they can,Naim will say they're are no longer supporting it, and others,like me,will have another piece of redundant technology that has seen its day.
R.I.P.

Cool thanks Rusty - at least now we know who to ask about Naim's development plans. 

 

Rusty, what are Naim's plans regarding a next generation for the Naim Dac, and also any plans for something to supercede the NDS?

 

Looking forward to finally learning,

 

Bart

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Claus-Thoegersen

Until now Naim has added many many features to the servers. They started out as ripping machines that also could serve in multiroom systems. No way to do upnp an internetradio, and no way to make it possible to get the server to save to an external nas when the hd was full. With upnp, internet radio and the ability to make a store on a nas, and backup to a nas the servers have really changed very  much from what they were in the beginning. The upnp server has limitted functionality in some areas especially regarding the way it handles tags, but I have never seen somebody complain about the upnp servers stability. As long as there is a network it works!

But I too am concerned, the hardware is very old if you look at it as a computer, and it is unclear if development is continuing on the software. Yes we got  a  very secret firmware update in December 2014, no new end user features, but something  was updated.

And by the way the Windows dtc is one of the all time best userinterfaces! Few knows about it since you have to be among the less than  5 percent of Windows users who knows how to use Windows with a keyboard.

Claus

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by ChrisH
Originally Posted by Claus-Thoegersen:

And by the way the Windows dtc is one of the all time best userinterfaces! 

Yes, totally agree, a lot of functionality available.

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Jan-Erik Nordoen
Originally Posted by ChrisH:
Originally Posted by Claus-Thoegersen:

And by the way the Windows dtc is one of the all time best userinterfaces! 

Yes, totally agree, a lot of functionality available.

Yes it's good, until you try n-Serve for Mac, which combines DTC, nServe and a web browser...

 

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by ChrisH
????
Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Paul Stephenson

Hh, not great advice why get rid of a great sounding sever and also downgrade the files to flac, seems musical performance is not top of your list.

anything with moving bits is at risk, cassette, t/tables, cartridges, cars, cd mechs, and certainly hard drives, we all know that.

Our  QC continues to improve with lower and lower% failures yes sometimes we screw up but often it's parts which are out of our control but necessary  to make the unit work.

servers sales are going just brilliantly , why because they work, they do a great job and we love our music and wish to get the best performance we can, will it be replaced of course one day, can we and will we support it yes of course we will but for sure it's more of an issue than an psu, but we have supported CD players for years.

Have we spread our selves to thin too,many new products, we are in the entertainment business, people like new things, our engineers love working on new things and judging by our Growth many customers enjoy our offerings. 

Should I say to the team nah don't try to make the worlds best amp we are spreading ourselves too thin don't think so, what about mu-so stuffed with tech and the most musical  all in one unit on the planet. 272, cables all legitmate products all on song!

it is an interesting thread, I am sorry your serve broke, I am sure we will fix it, 

 

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Minh Nguyen
Originally Posted by andrew0810:

       

Last week my US broke down. 12 months old. Not quite what I was expecting, regarding the price tag...

Never mind, it's at the dealer already, and fortunatelity I made a backup recently...

But one thought came to my mind, after reading a lot of comments here: does Naim already have too  many irons in the fire, so that quality control starts to suffer? They throw new gear on the market in rather high frequency, like hardly affordable flagship amps, speakers and cables (cables! Naim didn't care about cable-hysteria  for years - but today they are in the Nordost-league...), car hifi, streamers, multi-function-products, all kind of lower-price stuff and obviously they have someone troubles with their software-development. Is Naim still on the right track? We can read a lot about Hugo and Sonos here. For some good reason? Where are you going to Naim? 


       


I am collecting my repaired Unitiserve tomorrow. Reason for failure: HD died after only 1 year. It was great of Naim to recover my music but I would agree with Andrew that is unacceptable for a HD to fail within this time frame. I suspect it has something to do with the Unitiserve overheating because the outer casing was warm: much warmer than I expected.

I'd also agree with Andrew regarding cables. For so many years Naim and some dealers would give the advice: change the cable and you deviate from the Naim sound. Well, after becoming disillusioned by their stance, I decided to try a third party cable. What did I find? Well let's say, I probably have a Super Lumina beater in my system. Pure OCC silver instead of silver plated copper and it sounds amazing.
Posted on: 16 April 2015 by hafler3o
Originally Posted by Paul Stephenson:

... not great advice why get rid of a great sounding sever and also downgrade the files to flac, seems musical performance is not top of your list...

There is no downgrading if you transcode to .wav before delivery to the streamer. There is, however, issues with native file tagging when stored as .wav, not if you use a UnitiServe, I hasten to add, but most people use other devices. Flac is a lot more 'portable'. I went from wav to flac and I'm happier with the sound and convenience.

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Tony2011

I wonder what's the ratio of Reference/ Entry level failures? Reading different threads, there  seems to be the hell of a lot of unhappy owners on one end of the scale. Dont forget the small people Naim because  they are your bread and butter!

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by hafler3o
Originally Posted by Tony2011:

... a lot of unhappy owners on one end of the scale ...

Most of whom are now constantly late for work / tea / bed. Or is it early?

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by andarkian

It is interesting to see how the topic has veered backwards and forwards to the vagaries of the server based hardware that Naim supplies and whether it keeps pace in terms of hardware (disks and SSDs), plus the development and incorporation of the software to maintain and communicate the stored data or music as some might call it. This is a streaming forum and streaming is changing the world of music.

 

in reality I don't think Naim is 'threatened' by advances in storage and streaming of music as long as it continues to reproduce it to the highest standards available to the company. If being a creator and purveyor of servers is not a viable business model then maybe best to face the fact and exit quietly.

 

Let me give you an example of a company that may have to get a little worried about this whole streaming music issue: the mighty Apple. The offerings of Spotify, Deezer, Qubuz etc. are more than nibbling Apple's core (pun intended) iTunes download business model. Many of us have iTunes but can get so much more for our tenner a month from these other offerings. The deals done by the streamers, for want of a better word, with the record companies are in place and Apple with its own new streaming offering due out any time soon is not going to be able to Lord it over the record companies twice. Apple probably will not have the market place anything like to itself. Similarly its Apple TV programmes and films is struggling to keep up with Netflix, Sky etc. In the streaming world Apple may have to fall back to its base businesses of Macs and phones, and as for the watch...

 

Streaming per se should hold no real concerns for Naim as long as it focuses on translation and reproduction, for which it is renowned. 

Posted on: 16 April 2015 by Rustyneedle

Bart 

 

Thank you for reading my post and for your comments.
 
As for a next generation DAC and NDS that's a little off topic,but for now I will continue to enjoy my Unitiserve - nDac - 555ps
 
The final learning - lets hope there isn't one or we're all in trouble!
 
To quote Paul Stephenson,if I may - "people like new things, our engineers love working on new things."
 
Time for bed
Posted on: 17 April 2015 by DavidDever

I giggled for a bit when I saw this - to surmise that Apple is resting on its laurels is a bit of a stretch.

 

Originally Posted by andarkian:

Let me give you an example of a company that may have to get a little worried about this whole streaming music issue: the mighty Apple. The offerings of Spotify, Deezer, Qubuz etc. are more than nibbling Apple's core (pun intended) iTunes download business model. Many of us have iTunes but can get so much more for our tenner a month from these other offerings. The deals done by the streamers, for want of a better word, with the record companies are in place and Apple with its own new streaming offering due out any time soon is not going to be able to Lord it over the record companies twice. Apple probably will not have the market place anything like to itself. Similarly its Apple TV programmes and films is struggling to keep up with Netflix, Sky etc. In the streaming world Apple may have to fall back to its base businesses of Macs and phones, and as for the watch...

 

Streaming per se should hold no real concerns for Naim as long as it focuses on translation and reproduction, for which it is renowned. 

Apple's team are currently re-tooling Beats Music to provide a much more artist-focused experience and the effort is being led by none other than Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails fame, who has invested time in both immersive artistic experiences on the Web and has released most of his own material in high-res for quite some time (and cares how it sounds). There exists a large library of 96 kHz / 24-bit submissions already in the vaults, so to speak. (I happen to know a little bit about the vaults .)

I love TIDAL (I drive nowhere without it, and always play from it as HI-FI uncompressed), but I also suspect that Beats (if they do it right by embedded device manufacturers, so to speak) will easily provide some competition out of the gate. The iOS / OS X audio subsystem is much better suited for this than it was fourteen years ago.

Qobuz, for me, doesn't register; from a developer's perspective, the API and constraints on the user experience are crap, and they've largely ignored the North American market (which makes them about zero relevant, given the number of manufacturers and consumers here). I understand their appeal, especially regarding the coverage of their catalogue, but surmise that their model is truly to be purchased by a larger entity, say, Samsung, in order to compete and survive.

Posted on: 17 April 2015 by andarkian
Originally Posted by DavidDever:

I giggled for a bit when I saw this - to surmise that Apple is resting on its laurels is a bit of a stretch.

 

Originally Posted by andarkian:

 

Apple's team are currently re-tooling Beats Music to provide a much more artist-focused experience and the effort is being led by none other than Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails fame, who has invested time in both immersive artistic experiences on the Web and has released most of his own material in high-res for quite some time (and cares how it sounds). There exists a large library of 96 kHz / 24-bit submissions already in the vaults, so to speak. (I happen to know a little bit about the vaults .)

I love TIDAL (I drive nowhere without it, and always play from it as HI-FI uncompressed), but I also suspect that Beats (if they do it right by embedded device manufacturers, so to speak) will easily provide some competition out of the gate. The iOS / OS X audio subsystem is much better suited for this than it was fourteen years ago.

Qobuz, for me, doesn't register; from a developer's perspective, the API and constraints on the user experience are crap, and they've largely ignored the North American market (which makes them about zero relevant, given the number of manufacturers and consumers here). I understand their appeal, especially regarding the coverage of their catalogue, but surmise that their model is truly to be purchased by a larger entity, say, Samsung, in order to compete and survive.

 

Actually I was going to refer to Beats given the astonishing amount of money that Apple paid for the company. It may have its finger on a pulse in the music world but is hardly representational of the whole music scene. The wider music industry will not be falling at Apple's feet, at least at the outset, when it introduces its new streaming service. I think the term once bitten comes to mind. What I was really trying to say is that Apple are susceptible to competition from the start as far as a streaming service is concerned. The innovative aspects of iTunes and Apple TV have been largely superseded and are very vulnerable to attack from the plethora of offerings elsewhere.

 

Personally, I just think as far as streaming music is concerned, Naim are in a good position to build on their strengths while Apple could be extremely vulnerable even with Beats and a mountain of cash. Just so you know I am not anti Apple, I am writing this on a MacBook, have an iPhone, Apple TV and iTunes. As for the iWatch, my Citizen Eco Drive requires no battery, is perfect to the second, and adjusts automatically for month and season. My Zenith El Primero does for flash occasions and I would not be selling Rolex stocks if I had any. 

Posted on: 18 April 2015 by Tog
Originally Posted by DrMark:

Computers are notoriously unreliable and finicky, which is why I would not spend Naim-type money to get one in a black box.  At the end of the day, it is still a computer.  I am mindful of the same thing with my Vortexbox.  (Which runs Linux.)

 

Further, I have seen enough complaints about software/firmware on this forum to make me a little circumspect in that regard.

 

However, in response to a comment above, I still have a Dell laptop running XP that I bought in February of 2007 - still chugging along.  I use it as my "travel" machine when visiting dad, etc.   Maybe the moral of the story for the OP is "Shoulda got a Dell, dude..."  (Reference to an early 2000's ad campaign in the US in case they didn't run those ads in Europe or elsewhere.)

 

Just one man's opinion...

The main difference with a Vortexbox device is not just the ease of backup but the simplicity of hardware repair and software reinstall - no need for a dealer 

Posted on: 21 April 2015 by Timbo39

First ever post so be kind!

A year ago I jumped into Naim world with a Superuniti. My wife wanted a Unitiserve, and I was willing to go along with her. We let the dealer talk us out of it and bought a QNAP NAS first running twonky, then asset.  I was quite happy with the sound. Didn't like the artwork problems and number of unknown albums/tracks etc. But my wife just wasn't interested in trying to rip or play CDs any more, and was much more frustrated than I by the whole laptop/ripping/NAS thingy. So I mentioned to her that there was an ex demo Unitiserve for sale thinking "can't afford that, don't really need it, won't sound any different".  As with the Muso before, she said "Buy it!".  Experience to date?  My wife fights to get to the Unitiserve to re-rip all 600 CDs (I know we don't need to).  Sound wise? Well using the Unitiserve to serve up a file either from its own HDD, or from a NAS, I can't hear any significant difference.  BUT the difference between serving from Unitiserve, and serving from NAS is quite substantial and was a really unexpected side-benefit, as we'd thought we were only buying convenience/simplicity.  Timing - particularly evident in fast percussion - just seems palpably and significantly improved. OK not a scientific test, may well be similar differences between other makes of NAS for all I know, and I dread the day the thing breaks down (but at least I have the NAS backing up). For now it feels like money well spent to us.  And yes, it may be old technology, may be superseded shortly, may depreciate more than other Naim kit but, living for the moment, we're very happy. We're lucky enough to be able to buy one, and I was happy before so I'm not advocating its for everyone.

Posted on: 21 April 2015 by hungryhalibut

It's funny, I had a UnitiServe and was its biggest fan. After my CDs were all ripped, and backed up to a NAS, I got to thinking about whether I need the serve. I then tried playing music via the NAS and what do you know, it sounded better. Whether the files are on the NAS or the Serve, when you are streaming the user experience is the same, as you use the Naim app to control the SuperUniti. It's certainly nicer ripping via the serve, rather than getting the laptop out, but the sonic result is no better. Using dBpoweramp the bit perfect ripping is just the same as using the Serve. And with Minim loaded on the NAS, the search facilities are even better than using the Naim server.