Norway First To Switch Off FM Radio.

Regardless of the quality issues I just don't think we are ready to do this yet.

For example I've just changed my car for a brand new one and the tuner is FM only. This seems pretty common so if we change over many people will be without radio in the car which is probably where most casual listening is done,

Adding extra boxes to stream or receive DAB in a car seems rather cumbersome to me so we need to wait until a critical mass of people have DAB.  This is what happened with TV, but the option of adding a digital set top box didn't seem so inconvenient then.

Richard

Once VHF Radio is turned off in the UK  it will be missed by the majority as much as LPs are missed by the majority. In other words it soon be forgotten and not lamented. 

Of course there will always be a minority who seem to have nothing more important in life to worry about than obsolete media carriers. 

ATB from George

I'm surprised the car mnfts are so slow on this,  all new receivers are supposed to be enabled for all the WorldDMB directed adoption of DAB, DAB+ & DMB

My new car has FM & DAB & it has been fun to play with to try DAB again.

Bottom line is - No Thanks - top end is hard on the ears,  its OK for speech but music with high Hz content is not nice.   

Regarding critical population mass:  Despite the WorldDMB directive, UK is still not moving towards the more efficient DAB+ (aac/aac+).  Bottom line is UK is struggling to get digital users up to the government 50% target of the population using DAB.  One of the main reasons for the slow take up is poor transmitter coverage in rural areas & poor reception in some cities due to high rise building shadow issues. There is an accelerated program underway to get rural transmitter installations completed by the end of 2015 & by that time DAB should have area coverage comparable to FM. Its expected this will advance the percentage number of DAB users. 

The industry is talking about FM switch off around 2020, but it does depend on that 50% number & considering that is a politically directed target,  & we all know politicians,  & we all know it could be all change next month.

And as for you George having a dig at FM enthusiasts - which incidentally really is a superior SQ medium compared to even the best DAB - its a bit rich coming from someone who was banging on about LW last time we discussed terrestrial radio.    

Richard has it right.

Cars and car owners are far from some inconvenient, self interested minority group. And why should car owners have to worry about the future of FM car radio.

When the car assemblers turn out 80% of their product with DAB capable radios, then and probably only then, will we switch off FM Radio.

Don,  I agree car radio is a sizable market influence, & I believe DAB is new cars is past 80%.  

RAJAR numbers on automotive (cars & commercial vehicles)

20% of radio listening is in vehicles

As of 1st QTR 2014 - 4.5% of cars (on the road) have a digital radio
Digital radio is now standard in almost all new cars - it should be 100%

Dear Mike, 

Assuming that LW will also soon be discontinued, can we hope for the monstrous eyesore that is the Droitwich 1500 metre transmitter will soon be taken down and replaced with much needed new housing for example? It should fit planning as brown field site.

ATB from George

Apart from Norway being very mountainous and incredibly sparsely populated by fellow European standards, what do you think might have influenced their government's decision?

Chris

As regards infrastructure Norway has a wonderfully developed and run system. 

They have a superb mobile telephone system that works not only in towns and on main roads but throughout the mountains! Amazing really.

I suspect that there is different mentality at work than in the UK or indeed most of the rest of Europe.

It is just a more forward looking culture.

ATB from George

100% George

I guess the brownfield development is a bit dependant on 7th May,  I wonder if the Scottish woman will allow Ed "Wallace" Miliband  to adopt such a Tory tainted plan.  

- No don't answer it'll only end up with significant thread drift

Dear Mike,

I am on a self-made promise to avoid discussing politics before May 7th!

It gets nobody anywhere on the internet.

All I'll say is that I shall be voting for two different Parties at the Local and General parts of the Election!

ATB from George

Any chance you can nudge up the sensitivity of your irony detection sensors, George? 

Chris

Dear Chris,

You have me banged to rights!

I am half-Norwegian, and irony is not really part of the Norwegian psych. Black and White is rather nearer the reality. I suffer from this failing for sure. Some British people would call this a sense of humour failure ...

ATB from George

Thank you George. I can't tell you how much that helps. Seriously.

Best,

C.

Chris!

Funny that this thread started - I just ran across this article earlier today - geared towards the US markets, but the guy is pretty well versed in the auto industry:

http://ericpetersautos.com/201...e-end-of-amfm-radio/

It's not the obsolescence of FM that worries me so much as the utter ***** quality of DAB that is intended to replace it. Lets hope the BBC get their hi-res web radio sorted before FM goes out the window.

....but then, I'm obviously some sort of diehard weirdo, because I quite like LPs as well 

As long as they don't turn it off halfway through The Archers.

Or the shipping forecast....

Dear Chris,

DAB is not as good as VHF, but is certainly good enough for cars and also good enough for speech radio at home, and also pop music broadcasting.

For the serious live broadcast we still await CD quality on streaming. The BBC have slipped back in this respect, but no doubt will recover ...

ATB from George

And there lies digital radio's biggest problem.  When reception conditions move from less than perfect towards marginal you don't just get a bit of extra noise or interference, where the program is still intelligible, you get porridge or nothing.

This can happen even when your radio is sat on the kitchen counter, let alone when you're driving around.  My girlfriends car has DAB and it's utterly infuriating trying to listen to Radio 4.  Even just a few seconds drop out here and there is enough to make it a waste of time - the reality is that the drop-outs are regularly much, much longer.  

Digital radio is a great idea in theory, but one that just doesn't seem to work so well in the real world. A large buffer system might help but then that doesn't really work so well for radio in real time.

I'd miss those big masts. It was always nice to see the glow of the red warning lights telling me i was nearly home after a long journey when i used to work up in Malvern. 

This is the most common complaint with car DAB, & its not the obvious places like mountains & moors try D-a-*|*-a-#-B in central London, the wild west of Wales, the vast plains of the eastern fens.   But the good news as I posted earlier is there has been an accelerated program underway since mid 2014 to get all planned rural transmitter installations completed by the end of 2015 & by that time DAB should have area coverage comparable to FM.  The roads in my area that did have poor/no reception are now fully covered.   

& as I also posted earlier,  I much prefer FM to DAB in my car,  DAB is not good with high Hz content.  OK it might be a problem with the radio receiver rather than DAB,  but as FM, CD & USB with MP3 & WAV 24/96 is excellent,  I tend to think not.

As anyone who regularly listens to the BBC's "listener, have your say" show Feedback can attest, you disrupt or interfere with The Archers at your peril. There are few things more scary to bureaucrats than the wrath of the middle classes.

Norway is a very rich country, it has the ability to do things right, not the bodge about methods used in the UK.

Due to the geography I would expect that they will have a very generous quantity of transmitters. It will be interesting to see how they overcome transmission drop outs in the tunnels and remote mountainous areas.

They also are probably on DAB+ unlike this sad land.