Statement has landed

Posted by: Graham Clarke on 09 May 2015

So after three long months of waiting, my Statement preamp finally arrived yesterday.  I managed to do pretty well in being patient until we got down to around the last ten days…  This was the starting point:

 

 

Since my Statement home demo via UHES in January I’ve changed my two main interconnects to Super Lumina ones and have swapped out NAC A5 for Super Lumina, at a somewhat excessive cost, but with brilliant results. 

 

 

To answer a previous question asked on the Forum regarding how these speaker cables are tuned, it is down to the resistor used.  The resistor is soldered across the positive and negative cables and then surrounded in the metal box to protect it.  This provides the correct inductance that the power amps require.  The tuning is the value of the resistor and the type of resistor used (e.g. RS Components, Farnell etc).  Required values were determined for specific lengths via listening and then other lengths were calculated via a computer program.

 

Anyway, onto the day.  The plan was to check the torque settings on the S-600 speakers’ drive unit screws, break down, clean, tighten and reconfigure the Fraim racks, install the six Super Lumina DIN-XLR cables and oh, just add the Statement S-1 pre-amp to the mix, replacing the 552…

 

To complete this task we had four people.  Ian and Norman from UHES of course, plus Jason Gould and Mark Raggett directly from Naim.  It’s always enjoyable spending time with Ian and Norman but also getting to spend around four hours with Jason and Mark was the icing on the cake.

 

 

Ian first checked the speaker torque settings, which turned out to be fine since their last check nearly two years ago.  Given I purchased these as ex-demo speakers from UHES it’s probably no surprise that they had already bedded in and didn’t need further adjustment.

 

I wish I could say the same about the Fraim racks.  These were new a year ago and Ian had told me that I should check the tightness of the spikes after a few months because there is a degree of compression and expansion of the wood from new which will loosen them.  Having assumed that they would just be slightly loose combined with a degree of laziness and a manic work schedule I’m afraid I hadn’t bothered.  Well, when we broke down the power supply Fraim rack and lifted the base off the carpet, one of the spikes remained embedded in the concrete floor, to my embarrassment!  So YES, you really DO need to check these with newly built Fraim racks.

 

During this time break down time, Jason and Mark had man handled the S-1 flight case out of Mark’s car.  At least for the UK, these are delivered direct from the factory to the customer.  “Man handled” is the correct term given the 102Kg shipping weight but this was slightly easier than in January as the case now has detachable wheels.  Direct delivery is done to ensure that the unit turns up in 100% perfect condition both cosmetically and functionally.  This was of course not a problem with mine.

 

While they were busy doing this, I kept myself busy by taking a look at the long awaited DIN-XLR cables.

 

Anyone familiar with Powerlines or Hi-Lines will recognise the packaging.

 

 

 

As you can see, both ends use the Air-PLUG technology that the other Super Lumina cables use via a set of interconnecting metal rings.  The XLR canons are also metal, unlike the original ones.

 

Jumping forward slightly, the only glitch of the day was that when installing these cables into my Snaxo BMR, the far end of the Air-PLUG connectors on the top cable touch the one beneath.  When the system has bedded in I’ll have to see whether this actually makes an audible difference.

 

 

There was another box which was unexpected, this turned out to be the Statement accessory kit, the finish of which was beautiful.

 

 

There were three layers to this box with the top containing the manual and a spirit level.

 

 

The second layer in mine was empty given I had not purchased the Statement power amps.  Apparently I am the first person world wide that Naim have supplied with just the pre-amp, all other purchasers have gone for the complete system.

 

In the bottom layer of the box were a number of tools

 

 

Including some Statement Fraim chips (different from standard ones) and the remote control which is in the bag on the right.  This is constructed of metal and is similar in weight and feel to the NARCOM remote.

 

Given the NARCOM remote is £300, I dread to think how much a replacement one of these would be.  I better not lose it down the back of the sofa.

 

After completing the first Fraim rack, Jason and Mark unpacked the pre-amp.

 

 

Given the size, weight and space constraints this does need to be planned!  With the protective cover removed it finally appeared for the first time.

 

 

Even unpackaged this weighs 60Kg so moving into position isn’t an easy task.  This is what it looks like inside to help explain (no, this isn't mine!)

 

 

That's a lot of components!

 

Happily (for me) I left the task of moving to Mark.

 

 

No pressure there Mark, I’m sure you loved me taking pictures of you while you were doing this!

 

 

We agree not to put it flush up to the racks so that it could be easily cleaned.  Getting the position right, ensuring it was absolutely level and parallel with the left hand rack easily took 30 minutes such was the perfectionist nature of Ian and Mark. 

 

Installing the second Fraim was relatively straightforward after this, poor Ian was left to do this while everyone else chatted and watched on.  Jason commented that normally with home installs they get involved directly but knew that they could leave this to Ian given his expertise.  High praise indeed for UHES.

 

One added bonus of moving to two racks and separating them slightly is that cable dressing is now much better, with no Burndys touching the wall and all but a few cables off the floor.

 

 

Finally, after over four hours of work, everything was set up and listening was about to begin!

 

 

By now it was about 6:30PM and we had a dinner reservation for 7:30 as we were all hungry, so we only had limited listening time.  I wasn’t too worried about this because the pre-amp is brand new and stone cold, the DIN-XLRs are also new and the rest of the system would have cooled down, so my expectations weren’t too high.

 

From the first track there was a slight degree of harshness around the sound.  This was consistent with the from cold demo in January.  High frequencies were also a little tight and I’d say that the pre-amp and system in generally was probably only at around 50% of its full potential.  Despite that, some of the greatness from the January demo was already apparent: the super low noise floor (if it was any lower it would be sucking noise out of the room) along with the incredible detail and separation of every instrument being played.

 

Unfortunately Saturday obligations mean I won’t get to listen further until later in the afternoon, but both main sources have been left active playing into the system and with further warm up I’m expecting a big jump.  So you’ll have to wait a while longer for the clichés and superlatives.

 

More to follow and thanks for reading if you got this far.

 

 

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by Harry

Nothing is ever black and white, although more latterly I have tended to fall into the second group. Having the luxury of a helpful dealer probably contributes significantly and is something I never take for granted. 

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by 911gt3r
Originally Posted by Graham Clarke:

So, I'm just over a week in now.  What have I learnt?  Well, primarily that to say Statement is better than <x> piece of kit in one area would be wholly simplistic.

 

It betters lesser pre-amps (yes 552, I'm looking at you) in all areas: detail, sound stage, low distortion even at high volumes (no longer tiring or a reason to generate a grimace) and fuller bodied.

 

While listening last night a few thoughts came to me.  "Why use one note when three will do?".  On certain electronic instruments you can hear that a note isn't at a constant tone, there is often a degree of frequency oscillation which is accurately captured by S1 and missed by others.  Never noticed that before.

 

Another thought was of comparing S1/552 to fine red wines.  People sometimes describe red wines as being "full bodied" or "heavier" than others.  That analogy applies here too, with a richness to music that makes 552 sound lean, or dare Ieven say it, thin? 

 

Pick out an instrument and follow it all the way through the piece, regardless of what else is going on, nothing phases it.  Follow the delicacy of a triangle despite an onslaught of a powerful bass guitar or the heavy duty thump of a large drum, never losing track of it.

 

Immerse yourself in the soundstage of the room, being able to spatially place each instrument and gain an insight into the room size. 

 

Hear the emotion put into lyrics which I think is aided by the BMRs not having a cross over right in this frequency range.  Really understand the story that the artist is portraying through their words.

 

All of these things allow you to connect to the music in a way that just wasn't possible previously.

 

One thing that I have noticed is that as time progresses, my memory of the 552 sound fades, replaced by that of S1.  That's bitter sweet to me, as this means that the Statement performance is becoming the norm and might eventually even be taken for granted.  Experiencing the wonder of hearing a new perspective on a well known piece of music and getting goose bumps from it is part of the upgrade experience and probably is part of the reason we all get drawn into upgrade-itis. 

 

I know that this transition over time is inevitable and that I am incredibly lucky to be able to own this pre amp but do wish the feeling could be more enduring, less fleeting.  However, despite being one week in I'm sure that the burn in is still far from complete and it is yet to yield more of its secrets.  I'm also sure I'll enjoy witnessing the reaction of other enthusiasts who hear it for the first time.

 

Work commitments mean I'll be out of the country for six days so likely little more in the way of progress updates for a while.  However that does mean that my wife gets to play with it during my absence!  Upon return it will be fun to understand how much it has changed in those few days.

 

Graham, did I just witness you using the word about the 552 sounding th....th.....THIN ?!  Oh noooo, but hey you just enjoy ATB Peter 

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by MDS

Nice write-up, Graham. I recognise your descriptions.  For example, your point about being better able to follow what individual instruments are doing all the way through despite other heavier-duty instruments masking them.  That's a very pleasing effect which I think appeals to the rational side of our brain. And then there's that other effect which appeals to the emotional side, which you express as giving goose-bumps.  That's much harder to describe in words but very very real.  Great stuff.

Mike   

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by Graham Clarke
Originally Posted by 911gt3r:
Originally Posted by Graham Clarke:

So, I'm just over a week in now.  What have I learnt?  Well, primarily that to say Statement is better than <x> piece of kit in one area would be wholly simplistic.

 

It betters lesser pre-amps (yes 552, I'm looking at you) in all areas: detail, sound stage, low distortion even at high volumes (no longer tiring or a reason to generate a grimace) and fuller bodied.

 

While listening last night a few thoughts came to me.  "Why use one note when three will do?".  On certain electronic instruments you can hear that a note isn't at a constant tone, there is often a degree of frequency oscillation which is accurately captured by S1 and missed by others.  Never noticed that before.

 

Another thought was of comparing S1/552 to fine red wines.  People sometimes describe red wines as being "full bodied" or "heavier" than others.  That analogy applies here too, with a richness to music that makes 552 sound lean, or dare Ieven say it, thin? 

 

Pick out an instrument and follow it all the way through the piece, regardless of what else is going on, nothing phases it.  Follow the delicacy of a triangle despite an onslaught of a powerful bass guitar or the heavy duty thump of a large drum, never losing track of it.

 

Immerse yourself in the soundstage of the room, being able to spatially place each instrument and gain an insight into the room size. 

 

Hear the emotion put into lyrics which I think is aided by the BMRs not having a cross over right in this frequency range.  Really understand the story that the artist is portraying through their words.

 

All of these things allow you to connect to the music in a way that just wasn't possible previously.

 

One thing that I have noticed is that as time progresses, my memory of the 552 sound fades, replaced by that of S1.  That's bitter sweet to me, as this means that the Statement performance is becoming the norm and might eventually even be taken for granted.  Experiencing the wonder of hearing a new perspective on a well known piece of music and getting goose bumps from it is part of the upgrade experience and probably is part of the reason we all get drawn into upgrade-itis. 

 

I know that this transition over time is inevitable and that I am incredibly lucky to be able to own this pre amp but do wish the feeling could be more enduring, less fleeting.  However, despite being one week in I'm sure that the burn in is still far from complete and it is yet to yield more of its secrets.  I'm also sure I'll enjoy witnessing the reaction of other enthusiasts who hear it for the first time.

 

Work commitments mean I'll be out of the country for six days so likely little more in the way of progress updates for a while.  However that does mean that my wife gets to play with it during my absence!  Upon return it will be fun to understand how much it has changed in those few days.

 

Graham, did I just witness you using the word about the 552 sounding th....th.....THIN ?!  Oh noooo, but hey you just enjoy ATB Peter 

No, you're imagining it.  Move along, nothing to see here...

 

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by 911gt3r

On a serious note Graham, I am really enjoying reading your continuing experiences with the S1. You are actually exceptionally clever at getting your thoughts/ observations down on paper for us to enjoy!  Keep it comin' Peter

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by Graham Clarke
Originally Posted by 911gt3r:

On a serious note Graham, I am really enjoying reading your continuing experiences with the S1. You are actually exceptionally clever at getting your thoughts/ observations down on paper for us to enjoy!  Keep it comin' Peter

Why thank you!

 

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by jon h

The whole question of "value", its perception, what it means and how you measure or justify it, has been niggling away at my head recently. A whole bunch of very long haul flights has helped, by giving me rare time to just think. 

 

I said it before, said it the Critic piece, and will say it again - S1Pre is an amazing leap forward. 

 

I think it is well worth considering the family of 52, 552 and S1Pre. Costwise, you are at around (say) 4k for 52 (mint, serviced, blah blah), 20k for new 552, and 50k for S1Pre. 

 

I still think the 52 offers exceptional value for money. It delivers a huge amount for (relatively) little outlay. I think the S1Pre offers even more value for money, despite the price tag -- what it does is so game changing, that its hard to criticise the VFM. Thats not to say that it is for everyone -- that sort of spent can never be so.

 

Its the 552 that I find intruiging. I have listened to them, on and off, in many systems, over the history of the product. And, though many will find this heretical, I simply dont think the 552 delivers a performance level commensurate with its price. Now, I am not doubting that it is better than the 52 -- it is. But it was always a big leap for not much. And that has been most clearly put into focus by S1Pre, where the leap over 52 is way way more than twice that of the 552.

 

Thats why I say the 552, much loved though it is by many, is now at the end of the arc of its performance lifespan. Of course it will stay in production until a new product is ready, and may well have an uplift in the meantime (like the new regulators, or the recently announced poweramp upgrades) - it would be daft to withdraw it. And maybe its successor is many years away. 

 

But I think its very important for prospective (and existing) 552 owners to listen to S1Pre to correctly put current 552 into context, both in terms of absolute performance but also in terms of VFM.

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by FangfossFlyer

Jon,

 

On the other hand hand as a 552 owner who is perfectly happy perhaps I should not listen to a S1 pre!

 

Richard

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by Foot tapper

Right, that's it.  Peter, you just have to order one now!!!

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by 911gt3r

Good point Jon, but let's face it 55 K is a lot of hard earned cash. As much I would love to pull the trigger, I would personally simply have to prioritise differently. ATB Peter

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by 911gt3r
Originally Posted by Foot tapper:

Right, that's it.  Peter, you just have to order one now!!!

You kno' you wanna! 

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by tonym
Originally Posted by FangfossFlyer:

Jon,

 

On the other hand hand as a 552 owner who is perfectly happy perhaps I should not listen to a S1 pre!

 

Richard

Sequence of events - you listen to the S1. You gasp at its superlative sound quality. You go back to the 552. You feel depressed and confused. Work out possible scenarios whereby you can afford an S1. Play some of your favourite music. Realise that the 552 ain't too bad really. Enjoy listening to it, as before. Forget about the S1. Until the next time.

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by Harry

552 is a long way ahead of 252, a pre which I loved very much but simply couldn't cope when compared to the insight and realistic portrayal of the 552. In absolute terms the 552 may be a bit of an oddity compared to other preamps, past and present, when analysed in terms of raw VFM at their respective price points. But I wouldn't characterise it as weak in any respect at its price point. World beating would be more my leaning. But each to our own.  One day the S1 Pre may strike me as superb VFM. Today it doesn't. Everything is relative.

 

I was thinking about Graham's observation about "why play one note when three will do" and about the sub tones and frequencies which comprise what you thought was one note, particularly electronic tones,  whilst listening to my still improving system with SL IC and speaker cables this afternoon. More notes and insight from my speakers than I have ever heard. Wonderful. Graham has already progressed beyond this level and reports a typical gain in these kind of things. Just like I would expect. So where does it really all end? Or should that be - will it ever really end? 

 

How much more is in there? It only goes to increase my respect for and admiration of the composers, arrangers, musicians and producers who put so much time and skill into recordings which continue to reveal themselves more over time. Remarkable. Are we half way there yet?

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by 911gt3r
Originally Posted by Harry:

552 is a long way ahead of 252, a pre which I loved very much but simply couldn't cope when compared to the insight and realistic portrayal of the 552. In absolute terms the 552 may be a bit of an oddity compared to other preamps, past and present, when analysed in terms of raw VFM at their respective price points. But I wouldn't characterise it as weak in any respect at its price point. World beating would be more my leaning. But each to our own.  One day the S1 Pre may strike me as superb VFM. Today it doesn't. Everything is relative.

 

I was thinking about Graham's observation about "why play one note when three will do" and about the sub tones and frequencies which comprise what you thought was one note, particularly electronic tones,  whilst listening to my still improving system with SL IC and speaker cables this afternoon. More notes and insight from my speakers than I have ever heard. Wonderful. Graham has already progressed beyond this level and reports a typical gain in these kind of things. Just like I would expect. So where does it really all end? Or should that be - will it ever really end? 

 

How much more is in there? It only goes to increase my respect for and admiration of the composers, arrangers, musicians and producers who put so much time and skill into recordings which continue to reveal themselves more over time. Remarkable. Are we half way there yet?

Hi Harry.

I had an interesting conversation with somebody producing and racing hi-tech cars recently. The present understanding is that is currently very possible to create a car engine with 300 plus horse power per litre retaining endurance and reliability for a 100 K miles. Bonkers really, but I suppose it is down to us to stop ourselves at some point, because progress won't! ATB Peter

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by Harry

These are the lines I'm thinking along Peter. It's still relative but I think that it stops when the individual says it stops for them. I've been there. Then started again. Well, at least we know where it ultimately ends!

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by Graham Clarke
Originally Posted by jon honeyball:

The whole question of "value", its perception, what it means and how you measure or justify it, has been niggling away at my head recently. A whole bunch of very long haul flights has helped, by giving me rare time to just think. 

 

I said it before, said it the Critic piece, and will say it again - S1Pre is an amazing leap forward. 

 

I think it is well worth considering the family of 52, 552 and S1Pre. Costwise, you are at around (say) 4k for 52 (mint, serviced, blah blah), 20k for new 552, and 50k for S1Pre. 

 

I still think the 52 offers exceptional value for money. It delivers a huge amount for (relatively) little outlay. I think the S1Pre offers even more value for money, despite the price tag -- what it does is so game changing, that its hard to criticise the VFM. Thats not to say that it is for everyone -- that sort of spent can never be so.

 

Its the 552 that I find intruiging. I have listened to them, on and off, in many systems, over the history of the product. And, though many will find this heretical, I simply dont think the 552 delivers a performance level commensurate with its price. Now, I am not doubting that it is better than the 52 -- it is. But it was always a big leap for not much. And that has been most clearly put into focus by S1Pre, where the leap over 52 is way way more than twice that of the 552.

 

Thats why I say the 552, much loved though it is by many, is now at the end of the arc of its performance lifespan. Of course it will stay in production until a new product is ready, and may well have an uplift in the meantime (like the new regulators, or the recently announced poweramp upgrades) - it would be daft to withdraw it. And maybe its successor is many years away. 

 

But I think its very important for prospective (and existing) 552 owners to listen to S1Pre to correctly put current 552 into context, both in terms of absolute performance but also in terms of VFM.

Jon,

 

You say 4k for 52, 20k for new 552.  True, and that's great VFM for the 52 but it does overlook the fact that second hand 552s can be had for 8k and up and ex demo units for 14-15k. 

 

Second hand 52 vs second hand 552 is a fairer comparison and it's hard to argue against an 8k 552. 

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by Harry
Originally Posted by Graham Clarke:
Second hand 52 vs second hand 552 is a fairer comparison and it's hard to argue against an 8k 552. 

That's a good point.

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by MDS
Originally Posted by Harry:
Originally Posted by Graham Clarke:
Second hand 52 vs second hand 552 is a fairer comparison and it's hard to argue against an 8k 552. 

That's a good point.

Probably true but getting hold of a pre-loved 552 is another matter. Despite the appearance of the Statement, they are still quite rare. Perhaps because at those prices they represent very VFM.

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by Iron Cobra
Originally Posted by FangfossFlyer:

Jon,

 

On the other hand hand as a 552 owner who is perfectly happy perhaps I should not listen to a S1 pre!

 

Richard

On the other hand as a 252 owner who is perfectly happy I have never listened to a 552. 

Posted on: 16 May 2015 by jon h

Graham, not sure its fairer to compare 552 at 8k -- the reason is simple. Its still a current production item. Are you saying that its not worth 20k new price (which I would agree with....)? 

 

I wonder how many are being sold new now? 

 

Jon (continuing to stir the pot, but most definitely trying to have a thoughtful conversation with it  ;-)

Posted on: 17 May 2015 by Graham Clarke
Originally Posted by jon honeyball:

Graham, not sure its fairer to compare 552 at 8k -- the reason is simple. Its still a current production item. Are you saying that its not worth 20k new price (which I would agree with....)? 

 

I wonder how many are being sold new now? 

 

Jon (continuing to stir the pot, but most definitely trying to have a thoughtful conversation with it  ;-)

I'm not saying they aren't worth 20K, it's you who is implying that!

 

My point is that there are options, you don't HAVE to buy new.  On that basis I don't think the fact that it is a current model is relevant as that doesn't in any way preclude you from buying second hand.

 

Admittedly there aren't many around second hand but I probably see 4-5 come up a year on ebay and some of the well known second hand dealers' sites.  Given most people only need one that means it isn't impossible to purchase (unlike say a second hand Statement which I think will always be rarer than hens teeth).

 

Oh and no problem at all with you stirring the pot because it's a thought provoking discussion rather than a trolling attempt

Posted on: 17 May 2015 by Don Atkinson
Originally Posted by jon honeyball:

The whole question of "value", its perception, what it means and how you measure or justify it, has been niggling away at my head recently. A whole bunch of very long haul flights has helped, by giving me rare time to just think. 

 

I said it before, said it the Critic piece, and will say it again - S1Pre is an amazing leap forward. 

 

I think it is well worth considering the family of 52, 552 and S1Pre. Costwise, you are at around (say) 4k for 52 (mint, serviced, blah blah), 20k for new 552, and 50k for S1Pre. 

 

I still think the 52 offers exceptional value for money. It delivers a huge amount for (relatively) little outlay. I think the S1Pre offers even more value for money, despite the price tag -- what it does is so game changing, that its hard to criticise the VFM. Thats not to say that it is for everyone -- that sort of spent can never be so.

 

Its the 552 that I find intruiging. I have listened to them, on and off, in many systems, over the history of the product. And, though many will find this heretical, I simply dont think the 552 delivers a performance level commensurate with its price. Now, I am not doubting that it is better than the 52 -- it is. But it was always a big leap for not much. And that has been most clearly put into focus by S1Pre, where the leap over 52 is way way more than twice that of the 552.

 

Thats why I say the 552, much loved though it is by many, is now at the end of the arc of its performance lifespan. Of course it will stay in production until a new product is ready, and may well have an uplift in the meantime (like the new regulators, or the recently announced poweramp upgrades) - it would be daft to withdraw it. And maybe its successor is many years away. 

 

But I think its very important for prospective (and existing) 552 owners to listen to S1Pre to correctly put current 552 into context, both in terms of absolute performance but also in terms of VFM.

I have to agree with most of what Jon says in principle - never having heard an S1, but relying on the superb reports by Graham, Jon, ken C and the others who have listened.

 

The 52 is out of production. Good ones - in the sense that they are at least as good as the late production samples - can be had at £4k. That is a definite bench mark.

 

The S1, by all accounts, is in a League of its own (to use a footballing analogy) and at £57k it sets a new benchmark and ex-demo/second-hand don't exist yet. Note, Graham got his at a 20% discount on the current list price, but otherwise the price is pretty much fixed.

 

This leaves us with the 552. Still in current production but way better than the early samples and retailing new at c.£20k. Examples are offered for sale from £6k upwards, but £10k would be a more realistic price for a fully serviced example. None-the-less, that is a huge price range from £10 to £20k for a really good sample.

 

At c.£10k, the 552 IMHO fits quite well in value terms, between a 52 and an S1. At £20k, the 552 is an expensive beast. Still a considerable improvement over a 52, but not good value IMHO.

 

Now, if I was carefree and had a few £££million to spare, I wouldn't be bothered about chucking a miserable £20k at a 552 rather than penny-pinching a second-hand £10k version.

 

But i'm not carefree. So if I had a few £££million to spare, I would seek out a really good 552 at £10k and put the other £10k towards a second S1 for the conservatory.

 

In summary, There is virtually no objective relationship between 52/552/S1. Any subjective relationship depends on a mixture of taste and money.

Posted on: 17 May 2015 by Graham Clarke
Originally Posted by Don Atkinson:

The S1, by all accounts, is in a League of its own (to use a footballing analogy) and at £57k it sets a new benchmark and ex-demo/second-hand don't exist yet. Note, Graham got his at a 20% discount on the current list price, but otherwise the price is pretty much fixed.

Don,

 

Interesting how you portray your assumption (i.e. how much I paid for it) as a fact when I've not discussed this with you (or indeed anyone else). 

 

 

Posted on: 17 May 2015 by George Johnson

Dear Don,

 

I would love to know where your "intelligence" came from concerning Graham's price for the S1 pre-amp?

 

ATB from George

Posted on: 18 May 2015 by martin dahl

My guess is that Don presumes Graham ordered the S1 before the Price increase.... so its not really a discount - just good timing..

I went to KJ West One this saturday and listened to the Statement on Grande Utopia..... that was a mistake - life will never be the same Again....