Carbon to Aluminium regression

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Al as a frame material. Yes, carbon can/will probably be better at the top end, but at certain price point a nice Al frame can outperform its equivalently priced carbon competitor in many areas. Cannondale in particular carry Al frames way up the range. Their expertise is unparalleled.

Be sure that it isn't the frame material that is the issue, though. The Giant should be just fine in that regard. You spoke about position. You can get a pretty aggressive position on a Defy provided you didn't buy the frame too big. Removing spacers and longer, flatter stems (also ensure you have yours positioned in the "low" orientation) and playing with seat setback will help get you longer and lower. Full-drop bars, rather than the shallow/short ones that are common now will also make the positioning more aggressive. I've not ridden the 404s, but they're unlikely to be holding the bike back, unless they need tensioning/servicing.

Oh, and also consider steel. It has  nice feel to it.

As Winki said:

"Oh, and also consider steel. It has  nice feel to it."

It certainly can with a good light and resilient frame.

ATB from George

Like Winky, I think your conclusions could relate more to geometry and position than the characteristics of aluminium vs. carbon fibre. 

Earlier in the year my wife rode the Defy, Domane from Trek and Synapse from Canondale. She rode each for a week and picked the Cannondale. It's the Synapse Hi-Mod Black. Cannondale is a little more aggressive in it's geometry and layups yielding a more sprightly ride, while proving comfort over longer i.e >100km rides. She was comparing them to her Cervélo S3, which is a stiff and very fast bike. 

One thing to keep in mind is that aluminium changes. Every aluminium frame; including 3 Cannondales, I have owned has changed it's character quite significantly. Over time; in the saddle, the material tends to deaden somewhat, whereas carbon fibre is more consistent over the long term.

As both Winky and George have said steel is very nice but if you have the money Ti shaves some weight while retaining a sprightly feel, that lasts over time. My daily ride is a carbon fibre bike, but when I want to treat myself on a nice day I pull out my 15 year old custom Litespeed Ultimate.

Thanks for the replies.

The Defy stem is 'slammed' and I have some new more aggressive bars fitted from the stock compact drops.  The actual positioning is very similar now to my Trek despite the slightly more relaxed frame geometry.  As I say it's a fast bike now, just somewhat uninspiring to ride.  The Synapse is a beautiful frame but I have the nagging feeling that I would have more of the same (I haven't ridden one and can't justify a HI Mod).  An S3 is another matter...

The comments regarding Ti are interesting; a work colleague swears by his Van Nicholas.

Maybe I need to pay Enigma Cycle Works a visit...I can see that going down well with the missus.

cheers

Assuming you mean Enigma in East Sussex. Do that. I used to live in the area and a few old friends are very happy with their Enigmas. 

Be careful using Enigma Cycle Works, I've heard they suffer from quality variations.

It's true that some carbon frames have a dead, wooden feel to them. When switching from a Trek 5500 about 8-9 years ago, I first tried a Cervelo R3 but felt it had the same "dullness". Not that it wasn't stiff, but just something you couldn't put your finger on about the feel. A friend actually bought an R3 about the same time and swapped it for a Scott as he didn't like the feel. We compared "notes" and had independently come to the same conclusion. They are different now, so the issues may be gone.

The BMC Pro-machine I ended up with was much better than either the Trek or R3, while not as stiff. Fun to ride and responsive. Comfortable, too. 

My newest Colnago C59 almost combines the best of each of them; stiffer but not quite a smooth over pavement cracks etc as the BMC. Both the BMC and Colnago handle WAY better than the Trek which in hindsight was scary.

Winky,

does the frame geometry of BMC cause frame sizing to differ from the norm?

My usual bike size is 54cm but this size on the BMC seems to suit people a lot taller and big leggier than i,

and i notice the 51cm BMC Granfondo has a top tube the same length as my Trek 1000 WSD which is 54cm. 

It suggests my BMC size is more 51cm than the 54cm

Could go into the shop and try one for size,

but the nearest BMC stockist from here is a 120 mile round trip : /

Debs

Get the bike with the right TT length. Everything esle is adjustable, but if the bike is too short/long, your weight distribution will be wrong and handling will suffer.

I haven't ever heard of anyone who grew old, and while dying on their death bed looking back over their life said they wish they'd not wasted money buying a BMC TeamMachine....

I've still got my Giant TCR which is aluminium and now have a TCR Carbon which is so much faster and smoother. Less fatiguing. I have ridden a few Defys in carbon.  The bike shop in Bedoin at the bottom of Mt Ventoux has them.  Great for riding up, but scary riding down. The geometry sets the rider taller, making the ride for comfortable.  But it also makes the handling less precise. It took me a while to work out why I struggled on the descents. The TCR carbon is very nippy and smooth. Should have got one years ago.  For me, aluminium = bone shaker.

If I was shopping for a new bike that would definitely be on my shortlist. Gilbert put his to good use a couple of days ago in Italy. There are a lot of ugly bikes about these days. That's not one of them.

Many years ago my girlfriend at the time had a Aluminium TCR (one of those yellow, black and grey ones). I occassionally rode it. I found the frame very comfortable compared to my carbon fibre 5000 series Trek (one of the very early OCLV frames) which, in hindsight was stiff enough but wooden/dull (and handled terribly). So it is all relative. I'd imagine the Al TCR wouldn't seem as nice when compared to current carbon frames. I really think carbon technology has really improved in the last 10-15 years.