Driving etiquette………..

Prosecution of those who have failed their duty of care is sometimes appropriate. It starts with the driver, but doesn't necessarily end there.

Well, I think that kind of defeats your own argument winky, at least in this particular case. If the road should have been closed, then with no cyclists and no motor vehicles there wouldn't have been this terrible tragedy.

Who was responsible (but failed) to have the road close ? not the motorist !

Now I haven't read the full article, so please feel free to inform me, but was this particular motorist travelling at the same speed as other motorists, or was he driving recklessly compared to the other motorists.

Also, as an experienced cyclist, what would you do if you encountered widespread black ice whilst you were out on your bike ?

Ah winky, apologies. It looks like Huge posted a similar comment, but you might still wish to respond.

But the road wasn't closed, and I see no evidence that it should have been. There is no evidence that the road was "unsafe at any speed". I suggested this hypothetical situation in response to the incorrect assertion that no vehicle has any traction on "black ice" and therefore that the killing of the cyclists was an unfortunate and unavoidable "accident". If safe driving on black ice was indeed impossible we would have many more incidents and safety-oriented road closures through winter here in Canada.

Plenty of other vehicles (including the cyclists) were presumably managing to make their way around safely.

The motorist in question was evidently and inarguably travelling too fast for the conditions (road, skill, tyres, car, whatever). The evidence for this is the fact that he skidded off the road. Whether his speed was faster than other motorists who might have had better handling cars, winter tyres or greater skill is unknown, and irrelevant. Other motorists have nothing to do with this incident.

There is no evidence that ice actually was widespread in this case, but with the temperatures low enough, road users should of course expect ice on occasion and drive/ride/walk accordingly.

For me on my bike, occasional frosty and "black" ice-slick surfaces present a challenge but are generally negotiable provided I travel at a suitable speed. There is one short steepish downhill on a quiet street that I have walked down (on the grass verge) on two occasions, rather than cycle down because of ice. Some uphills on my route, my rear tyre will skid on the ice if I am off to the edge of the road where the car traffic hasn't cleared it. Slightly tricky, but not impossible to negotiate. There is another short, shady flat section near a river that ices up pretty well, but that is completely rideable on the ice provided I am just going straight, but I wouldn't want to have to turn or brake too much on it. I take it carefully.

There was one memorable occasion at a gentle downhill stretch where I was descending cautiously when a car skidded past me on the ice with all four wheels locked!

Generally, if I am expecting ice, I favour gentle and frequent use of the rear brake on descents and coming up to curves to test traction, slow way down and leave even more space around me. Of course, in comparison to motorists, the risk I am imposing on others is negligible. It is all on me.

In terms of widespread ice, if I suspected that much of my whole route would be frozen over, I might take the bus. Our club will cancel rides on particularly frosty mornings. We take responsibility for our actions. The car driver that killed the four riders was not held accountable for his.

Here we go who is in the wrong on this clip.

https://uk.screen.yahoo.com/wo...flees-181100183.html

Then look at this one, one for you winky

https://uk.screen.yahoo.com/wo...ereal-080000706.html

Black ice is not frost and has nothing to do with frost and I defy anyone on 2 wheels to cycle on it and successfully to brake or to change direction on it without falling off...

I know that.

Yeah I saw this one. These video vigilantes don't help the situation much, but this feckless, idiotic woman who chose to eat a bowl of cereal while driving needs to have a good long think about why, due to her inability to get her lazy @$$ out of bed 10 minutes earlier, she should put others' lives at risk.

It is all about speed. But yes, it's difficult for sure, perhaps close to impossible for extended distances.

I see women doing these sorts of things behind the wheel all the time. I'm not saying that men are completely innocent but 9 out of 10 times it's women. Make-up, hair, even changing cloths without hands on the wheel!

I saw one this only morning, maneuvering out from her parking place at Sainsburys,  choc bar & holding the wheel in one hand & texting with the other. She had a slight bumper touch on another car that she did not even realise (not serious but marked the paint)  then drove down the parking lane the wrong way !!! Nice Sainsbury security/car park marshall shouted & gestured for her to go the other way, she then let out a tirade of bad language, Sainsbury man tried but failed to get her to reverse & off she went. I confirmed number plate with the Sainsbury guy & pointed out the car she hit,  he left a note on the other car,  thats up to them,  but good luck with that one.

I believe from the video that she was stationary so what is the problem? How many motorists here, when not moving, have a drink, something to eat, talk to passengers and do the same whilst moving?

The sanctimonious **** on the bike thinks he is free to bully some random woman? One day he will pick on someone who will put him in hospital.

Would all Forum members who are able please sign the following pledge.

'In all the years I have been driving I hereby state I have never, ever, on any occasion, driven fecklessly, recklessly, lazily, stupidly or with anything other than full concentration, and have always driven entirely within the laws of the land and relevant Highway Code'

...

(not signed by me)

I find forums in general, (and motoring ones in particular) are stuffed full of perfect drivers. Odd really as the roads seem to reflect more mixed abilities.

She drove off with it on her lap eating.  I suspect he 'bullied' her because she is the kind of driver who is likely to drive through him on the road

If you think that eating a bowl of cereal while driving is acceptable behaviour, then that speaks volumes to your complete lack of comprehension with respect to the serious responsibility that comes with driving. You seem young, hopefully too young to yet have a licence.

Yeah the cyclist is a bit of a prat, and yes, run him down, that will make it right.

I wouldn't.  I had a reckless moment of extreme braking in the face of a speed camera van just this afternoon, on near empty dual carriage way I am hastened to add.  This was made easier, and less messy, as I was not trying to eat a bowl of cereal at the time.  The cyclist is right, such stupidity is ridiculous.

I don't believe I said that or even implied it.

But clearly you consider yourself to be some expert road user whatever form of transport you use and someone who never behaves in anything other than a saint-like and wholly appropriate  and by the law manner.

As such, you are beyond reason. p.s. I bet you have already signed the pledge above...

"I believe from the video that she was stationary so what is the problem?"

This bit is what I was talking about. Do you really think that she sat there stationary, got out the bowl, poured the cereal and milk, and will sit their stationary until she's finished?

Regardless of the cycling vigilante's OTT reaction, her behaviour is both illegal and hazardous.

Thats the bit i wondered about. Did she get in the car with the bowl already filled with milk and cereal, or did she pour it out while she was in traffic or while driving

At least three people are dead and dozens are injured after a man drove his car into crowds in a square in the Austrian city of Graz at F1 event.

The driver has been arrested ……….

Don't stress, he will be OK, he'll simply explain that the accelerator mis-functioned. "Oops! Sorry!"

+1

I don't know when she prepared the cereal and neither do you or the vigilante on the bike. I don't know when she ate it and nor do you or the vigilante cyclist.

Her behaviour might be illegal or not - neither I etc.....