Apple into streaming

Posted by: Hal on 03 June 2015

Will it be CD quality like Tidal, Qobuz or download quality from iTunes store which should be around 320-256K?

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ap...-services-1433183201

 

 

 

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by marcusman

No one will know what they are planning until after Apple's WWDC (World Wide Developers Conference).  The Keynote will undoubtedly make reference to the new service. 

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by marcusman
Originally Posted by Wat:

I bet it's 192 AAC, but hope I'm wrong - though not sure I'll use it 

Yeah that's probably what they'll use. :-(

My dream is they say pay an extra $5.00USD and you can stream lossless.  Then somehow its all supported with Naim's streamers...

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by Bart
Originally Posted by marcusman:

No one will know what they are planning until after Apple's WWDC (World Wide Developers Conference).  The Keynote will undoubtedly make reference to the new service. 

As a long time customer of Apple, I am greatly offended that they will not tell us in advance what they are planning.  I want to make decisions . . . and I find it wholly unreasonable that they refuse to share their development / new product offering plans with us their loyal customers.

 

Oh wait . . . wrong thread.

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by marcusman

@Bart ROTFLMAO

 

That's the funniest thing I've heard all day.  You made my day..

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by dayjay
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by marcusman:

No one will know what they are planning until after Apple's WWDC (World Wide Developers Conference).  The Keynote will undoubtedly make reference to the new service. 

As a long time customer of Apple, I am greatly offended that they will not tell us in advance what they are planning.  I want to make decisions . . . and I find it wholly unreasonable that they refuse to share their development / new product offering plans with us their loyal customers.

 

Oh wait . . . wrong thread.

 You'll be selling all your apple kit next in disgust

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by SongStream

Err...It's Apple.  A lowest lowest common denominator approach can be expected.

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by Bart
Originally Posted by SongStream:

Err...It's Apple.  A lowest lowest common denominator approach can be expected.

Apple could eat Naim for breakfast . . . and still be hungry for "second breakfast."

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by Bart
Originally Posted by Wat:

I expect something interesting to arise from the Amazon soon .... 

Between Amazon, Apple and Google (in alphabetical order), I expect at least one 'thing' to arise in the form of lossess streaming.

 

It 'has' to be only licensing; iTunes Match and Google Music already will convert anything they see on my computer to high bitrate lossy and then stream it back to me on demand.  Lossless seems just a different flavor, not a different meal, to me.

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by SongStream
Originally Posted by Wat:
 

Mr SongStream I expected nothing, but the best from Apple anything less and it goes straight out through the Windows .... imagine a Microsoft steaming service 8 bit mp2s .... 

 

I expect something interesting to arise from the Amazon soon .... 

Ok....I've literally no idea what you're trying to say. 

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk
Originally Posted by SongStream:
Originally Posted by Wat:
 

Mr SongStream I expected nothing, but the best from Apple anything less and it goes straight out through the Windows .... imagine a Microsoft steaming service 8 bit mp2s .... 

 

I expect something interesting to arise from the Amazon soon .... 

Ok....I've literally no idea what you're trying to say. 

Umm.. I already stream from Amazon.. It's not lossless but sounds ok for the car via 3G/4G.. and is fully integrated with my BMW Connected Drive system.. Nice innovation. I use the free version which allows you to stream all the CDs you have ever bought directly from Amazon ... Which for me is lots and lots.... It's also accessible from my Sonos.. But no real advantage there...

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by marcusman

@Bart I'm hopeful that Apple will go lossless first. They've slowly improved the quality of their downloads over the years and the next step is lossless..

Google and Amazon will follow suit if Apple goes first IMHO. 

 

Posted on: 04 June 2015 by Hal
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by marcusman:

No one will know what they are planning until after Apple's WWDC (World Wide Developers Conference).  The Keynote will undoubtedly make reference to the new service. 

As a long time customer of Apple, I am greatly offended that they will not tell us in advance what they are planning.  I want to make decisions . . . and I find it wholly unreasonable that they refuse to share their development / new product offering plans with us their loyal customers.

 

THREAD HIJACKING ALERT

Posted on: 05 June 2015 by Bart
Originally Posted by AllenB:
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by Wat:

I expect something interesting to arise from the Amazon soon .... 

Between Amazon, Apple and Google (in alphabetical order), I expect at least one 'thing' to arise in the form of lossess streaming.

 

It 'has' to be only licensing; iTunes Match and Google Music already will convert anything they see on my computer to high bitrate lossy and then stream it back to me on demand.  Lossless seems just a different flavor, not a different meal, to me.

Really, from someone that's willing to splash out large amounts of money on hardware to achieve best SQ. And lossless is just another flavour. How ridiculous.

 

Not just aimed at you Bart, this seems to be a rather tacit acceptance that lossy streams are OK on this forum. On Naim or any other high end expensive equipment. Wow!

No Allen, I wrote that poorly and/or you misinterpreted.  I have no interest in lossy music for the home hi fi, whether by streaming or otherwise. It's a shame to limit our source that way with great hi fi kit.  (But I am OK with it for my car and portable use.) 

 

My point was just that, given that (A) lossy streaming is already in place from Apple, Amazon and Google,  (B) other online services offer lossless streaming, then (C) the only things in the way of Amazon, Apple and Google offering it are (1) getting the necessary licenses from the music labels, and (2) the determination that there is a rationale for being in the lossless streaming business.

 

I hope my math works.

Posted on: 05 June 2015 by SongStream
Originally Posted by Wat:
Originally Posted by SongStream:
Originally Posted by Wat:
 

Mr SongStream I expected nothing, but the best from Apple anything less and it goes straight out through the Windows .... imagine a Microsoft steaming service 8 bit mp2s .... 

 

I expect something interesting to arise from the Amazon soon .... 

Ok....I've literally no idea what you're trying to say. 

It was unnecessarily cryptic - apologies. Really just saying I'm happy to try Apple & Amazon. I use Amazon now - I have Amazon Music Player on my iPhone/iPad and I have a Fire Stick, but it is only MP3 (not too bad though). I would think it would relatively easy for Amazon to enable FLAC (not sure on licensing). 

Indeed, I would certainly try either offering if they went full-fat.  Certainly, I have no prejudices that would be put me off should they offer what I am after.  What worries me is the potential for them to deliver lossless, but slightly less well than what I have now with Qobuz, yet their market-place weight would probably kill everything else anyway.  If they get it right though, well, it's tough world for the smaller competitors, but I am a consumer in this market-place, so happy days. 

Posted on: 05 June 2015 by ChrisSU
Originally Posted by AllenB:

In preparation for Apples announcements, I have reflected on this, and I have about-turned on this. I had hoped that Apple / Beats offered a lossless service at a cheaper rate than anyone else and hang everyone else. I now hope they do just enter the lossy streaming wars with the other big boys in Spotify, Google and Amazon. For the mass markets including receiving endpoints to these streams, there is already a huge well established battle-ground and probably the rightful place for these heavyweights.

 

If the market for lossless streaming is smaller because it only appeals to enthusiasts and audiophiles, then that is good news for Tidal, Qobuz and Deezer. There is a second tier competitive market place where we as the end-user have a choice. And hopefully, these services are more tailored to the kind of equipment and end-user that can appreciate it as part of their hobby.

Good point, they could wipe out the current lossless offerings in the blink of an eye if they wanted to.

Posted on: 05 June 2015 by dayjay
Originally Posted by ChrisSU:
Originally Posted by AllenB:

In preparation for Apples announcements, I have reflected on this, and I have about-turned on this. I had hoped that Apple / Beats offered a lossless service at a cheaper rate than anyone else and hang everyone else. I now hope they do just enter the lossy streaming wars with the other big boys in Spotify, Google and Amazon. For the mass markets including receiving endpoints to these streams, there is already a huge well established battle-ground and probably the rightful place for these heavyweights.

 

If the market for lossless streaming is smaller because it only appeals to enthusiasts and audiophiles, then that is good news for Tidal, Qobuz and Deezer. There is a second tier competitive market place where we as the end-user have a choice. And hopefully, these services are more tailored to the kind of equipment and end-user that can appreciate it as part of their hobby.

Good point, they could wipe out the current lossless offerings in the blink of an eye if they wanted to.

There will always be those who don't want to engage with Apple and its closed infrastructure.  Personally I'd rather tattoo my own eyeballs than be dependant on them for my source of music

Posted on: 05 June 2015 by SongStream
Originally Posted by AllenB:

In preparation for Apples announcements, I have reflected on this, and I have about-turned on this. I had hoped that Apple / Beats offered a lossless service at a cheaper rate than anyone else and hang everyone else. I now hope they do just enter the lossy streaming wars with the other big boys in Spotify, Google and Amazon. For the mass markets including receiving endpoints to these streams, there is already a huge well established battle-ground and probably the rightful place for these heavyweights.

 

If the market for lossless streaming is smaller because it only appeals to enthusiasts and audiophiles, then that is good news for Tidal, Qobuz and Deezer. There is a second tier competitive market place where we as the end-user have a choice. And hopefully, these services are more tailored to the kind of equipment and end-user that can appreciate it as part of their hobby.

Yes, quite,  I have had similar thoughts on the topic.  It seems to me that the lossless market, based on current pricing anyway, is too small to concern the likes of Slopify etc.  This may pave the way for smaller companies to cater for a niche enthusiast market, which suits me fine.  If your customer demographic is narrower and more specific, as a business, it is easier to provide for your customers' desires, and provide for them well, 

Posted on: 06 June 2015 by Fokkelman
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by marcusman:

No one will know what they are planning until after Apple's WWDC (World Wide Developers Conference).  The Keynote will undoubtedly make reference to the new service. 

As a long time customer of Apple, I am greatly offended that they will not tell us in advance what they are planning.  I want to make decisions . . . and I find it wholly unreasonable that they refuse to share their development / new product offering plans with us their loyal customers.

 

Oh wait . . . wrong thread.

 

Hahaha....

Posted on: 06 June 2015 by King Size
Originally Posted by AllenB:

In preparation for Apples announcements, I have reflected on this, and I have about-turned on this. I had hoped that Apple / Beats offered a lossless service at a cheaper rate than anyone else and hang everyone else. I now hope they do just enter the lossy streaming wars with the other big boys in Spotify, Google and Amazon. For the mass markets including receiving endpoints to these streams, there is already a huge well established battle-ground and probably the rightful place for these heavyweights.

 

If the market for lossless streaming is smaller because it only appeals to enthusiasts and audiophiles, then that is good news for Tidal, Qobuz and Deezer. There is a second tier competitive market place where we as the end-user have a choice. And hopefully, these services are more tailored to the kind of equipment and end-user that can appreciate it as part of their hobby.

I kind of agree with this in that I don't think Apple or Spotify (or the majority of music consumers for that matter) are interested in lossless streaming, at least at this point in the game.

 

However the problem is the current streaming model requires scale to be profitable, so unless the niche players can generate scale (which I don't think they will be able to due to lack of public interest) they will ultimately need to adopt a different business model and will need to charge very hefty premiums for lossless streaming (which I don't think the market will accept).  

Posted on: 09 June 2015 by JSH
I think I must be missing something here
 
Why stream CDs you've bought - especially if its in lower quality?  Er, why not just play them? 
 
Or listen to something intelligent on Radio 4
 
As I say, I am sure I am missing something
 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
Originally Posted by SongStream:
Originally Posted by Wat:
 

Mr SongStream I expected nothing, but the best from Apple anything less and it goes straight out through the Windows .... imagine a Microsoft steaming service 8 bit mp2s .... 

 

I expect something interesting to arise from the Amazon soon .... 

Ok....I've literally no idea what you're trying to say. 

Umm.. I already stream from Amazon.. It's not lossless but sounds ok for the car via 3G/4G.. and is fully integrated with my BMW Connected Drive system.. Nice innovation. I use the free version which allows you to stream all the CDs you have ever bought directly from Amazon ... Which for me is lots and lots.... It's also accessible from my Sonos.. But no real advantage there...