Tchaikovsky Symphonies

Guess you are not that curious, then.

Not that way.  I shop a lot at Amazon and SheetMusicPlus, but not really anyplace else.

I went to eBay in music with the search argument "Klemperer Tchaikovsky Symphony No 4" and all I get is a reel-to-reel of 4 & 5 for $35.95.

You already have links from me to buy the CDs of the last three symphonies off Amazon. Simple really.

Either you want them or you don't, but they are easily availble for an affordable price on the ever reliable CD. I recommended 1991 EMI release with the three [last] symphonies on two CDs [with the Pathetique divided] is more than an adequate mastering of very fine recordings, and there are even New Old Stock copies available from time to time, though more expensive. 

George

There's also a brand new ( NOS ) Klemperer Tchikovsky 3 LP box set ( sym. 4,5 6 ) available at Amazon, atm. ( for 50USD )

I can't compete academically with you guys, what I mostly judge music on is what it does to my emotions. BBC Radio 3 have just played Tchai 4 but I missed the introduction so didn't know which version. It was wonderful - at the end it was announced as the DG/Mravinsky/Leningrad. Hey ho.

Dear Gary,

I happen to agree with you entirely.

When Shelley wrote novels there was no expectation that these would be subject to huge analysis, and the same with the music of the great composers. Analysis can be enjoyable for some, but for most people it is fairly dusty, and people can fully enjoy the music as intended and anticipated by the composers, simply by listening to it.

... Rather as one can enjoy a piece of replay equipment without particularly understanding how it works, even if this is of great fascination to some.

Analysis is not inherently about enjoying music but understanding how effects are manipulated from a technical stand-point, and for most would not increase the enjoyment of the music itself by one jot. Either music speaks directly to the listener or not. Analysing it will not make the slightest difference to the individual gut reaction to the music of perhaps nineteen out of twenty people, though no doubt someone will be along just now to dispute that fractional proportion!

ATB from George

Maybe the development kind of eluded you because it starts so quietly.

Maybe so.  It's the first time I'm really paying attention to Tchaikovsky.  I've given it a couple of listens since your post and can hear what you describe.  Thanks for the patience :-)

Well, that's no surprise to me (see my very first response to the OP above). I don't think that anyone will ever get close to Mravinsky, and no orchestra will ever sound like his Leningrad players in the 50s or 60s.

Mr Eschman claims to like Tchaikovsky, but doesn't think that Mravinsky's orchestra plays the right notes (!!). And George is fighting a rearguard action for dear old Otto, who shouldn't really have gone near Tchaikovsky.

So don't worry about 'academic' credentials, it all comes down to taste in the end. Otherwise expressed, personal prejudice rules!

Feel free to like whomsoever you want.

I'm so curious about Klemperer's cover so I've ordred it to see. It should be interesting.

My want to listen to list for Tchaikovsky's 5th:

Szell

Bohm

Monteux

Dear Graham,

Exactly right! I would not even argue that I was correct to prefer dear old Otto [who certainly was right to approach Piotre Illych] in his approach to say his his coleague, Mravrinski.

Now soon I shall move to a very modest Victorian mid-terrace in Worcester, with help from a friend. When I build my [ancient technology] single driver speakers, I hope you will spend a weekend with me and PIT from Mravinski and Klemperer. No winner, but two great musicians presenting another's great music ...

ATB from George

Don't say that Graham55, I love the Mravinsky !  Of the recordings I have, this one seems musically right, but I don't like the sound of a Russian orchestra, particularly in the brass.  It seems too harsh.  But I keep going back for more listens.

The Abaddo Chicago discs are because I have a soft spot for Abbado.  He is one of the most thoughtful conductors.  ... and I grew up on the Chicago sound.  Tchaikovsky's brass never had it so good !

I have been listening to a Klemperer 6th, and it is competent and clear in intent, but somehow it doesn't make me "light up".  I'll give it some more time to soak in, but so far it hasn't been fun.

Tchaikovsky has grown considerably fonder over the past few weeks.

I want to study these melodies.

Just kidding, but are you aware that Tchaikovsky also wrote a Third Symphony, and a Second one?

Another even more urgent listen is his Third Suite, with the most successful variation movement PIT ever wrote.

And I'm not even saying Sleeping Beauty is arguably his greatest non-vocal work, greater than any symphony he wrote.

Herm, I love the Polish Symphony, and have spent more time on Swan Lake than any of the symphonies.

I have Mravinsky doing the Sleeping Beauty, but have never really paid attention to it.  I'll remedy that tonight.

Can you recommend a Third Suite ?

Strange to say, I rather like Järvi and the Detroit symphony on Chandos, in the 3d Suite, because it has a kind of crispness this music needs.

I ordered that, which also comes with the  Francesca da Rimini, a long time favorite.        

Well we are in agreement in enough ways for this to be fun.

I happen to know the first three PIT Sympnies and twice played the Polish. The early Tchaikowski Symphonies appeal to me far more than the early Dvoraks for example, but it remains the ballet music and the last three symphonies that remain fascinating and profoundly enjoyable for me.

George.

Balanchine turned the 3d symphony into ballet music, too.

I am enjoying the Tchaikovsky very much, but it is rich food.

After trying the Third Suite on for size, I am going to spend some time with the Bach Goldberg Variations to clear my pallet :-)

Gave a listen to Sleeping Beauty this weekend.  Very nice, but Swan Lake still takes my fancy.

While you chaps were arguing about performances, I bought the Abbado/VPO Tchai Fourth DG on CD online (it's deleted, so get old copies while you can). Due to time constraints (friends and family visits), I've only been able to hear it so far via headphones on my Sony CD Walkman, where the mastering sounds strangely quiet, but a magnificent performance shines through: a bash on the 'big' system upstairs will resolve this!

To George, in particular, but others who may be interested: Decca realised in the late 1940s/early1950s that they were 'light' on Tchaikovsky symphonies, so various surprising recordings were made in Hamburg, Vienna, London, etc. Perhaps their most surprising choice was to send Erich Kleiber to Paris to record the Fourth and Sixth with the Orchestra of the Paris Conservatoire. Maybe not the most "Russian" of recordings, but Erich Kleiber was a musical Titan, so he's worth hearing: are the Testament reissues still available? (Just checked, apparently so: I shan't part with mine.)

Incidentally, my only problem with this is that Decca should have been recording other Beethoven Symphonies under EK in Amsterdam or Vienna!!!!!!

Dear Graham,

Oh dear! More expense! That sounds very tempting! Thanks for the information. Kleiber was indeed a musical Titan, and I would bet he gets clear cut and very powerful performances going on his Beethoven recordings, and also that incredible Koln Schubert Great C Major recording once available on Amadeus!

ATB from George

Quote***** Decca realized in the late 1940s/early1950s that they were 'light' on Tchaikovsky symphonies, so various surprising recordings were made in Hamburg, Vienna, London, etc. ***Unquote                    That would explain the Nutcracker Suite I have on LP with, of all people, Hans Kappertsbusch conduction. Would also add Ormandy to the recommended list. Highly underrated and he brought out the opening bassoon melody of the 'Pathetique" like no other. Certainly preferable to Toscanini's much more wooden treatment.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tchaik...324320107&sr=8-1

As this thread has been resurrected, this is what I'm listening to at the moment. Favourably, I may add.