NDX, nServe, nDAC dilemma

Hi All

As a person who has yet to delve into the world of computer audio, the tone of this discussion just puts me right off. There seems to be endless discussions about rips and the method of ripping, which software to use etc. I know very little about this but ther seems to be a very big difference of opinion in this area. What I would like to see is a hierarchy of alternatives derived from people's experience, so that we can all do the dem and make up our own minds.

I appreciate that posters have very different opinions on computer audio, but surely the forum is about exchanging ideas and information and assisting other members, rather than becoming agitated if someone has a different opinion.

Just my 2p

Regards

Trevor  

Does it matter? Do you like what you hear? If so then you're in good company.

I've done my rips using XLD for some and iTunes for others. The results sound fine to me. I'm not going to worry about making identical rips with something else to find out if they sound even better. 

I still think if I play the same CD twice then I might prefer it the second time to the first time or vice versa. I just can't go along with all this magic ripper stuff. Still I can't hear the difference between identical PCM data ripped with iTunes, XLD and a US so perhaps I'm aurally challenged. 

When the NDX does Airplay and I can use my AIFFs then I'll put it on my shopping list. In the meantime, it my set-up works well the way it is, thanks to the excellent Naim DAC and UQ.  

All the best, Guy

Don't be too put off by what seems like a toxic environment.  The options that are out there are actually easier and less confusing than what it appears.  The main thing is, if you have interest in computer based audio then you need to get into the game yourself.  Buy something like a Mac Mini, whatever, and a good Upnp player from Naim and off you go!  Then you can start to think about the options that are out there for the actual archiving and delivery of your music as you move forward. 

Yes, this new technology seems to have many camps and certainly lots of opinions on how it all fits together but once you dive in you see that it really isn't as confusing as you first thought.  Most of us have gone through the laborious process of matching a record deck with a tonearm, a power supply maybe, a cartridge (moving magnet ot moving coil), a stepup transformer possibly, a phono stage, setup, etc, etc.

It starts making this computer music thing look pretty darn easy if you ask me.

As far as demoing, a dealer should be able to show a number of options to you.  Direct computer to Dac (different software options), Apple iTunes streaming, and of course Upnp streaming from computer (or Serve) to streamer (Unitiqute, NDX) and you can then decide what you want to do.  Asking for a hierarchy of those options will get you as many opinions as there are methods!  I know what I like and recommend but your mileage may vary.  Just get out and listen a bit and you should be able to hear YOUR preference in pretty short order. 

Hi Trevor

You're right - any decent ripper including iTunes will rip a good quality CD accurately and a damaged CD with a few errors, which it will try to correct. It doesn't matter which way you do it, given you have the software set-up properly, you'll get good results. There are some folk hereon that get annoyed if you suggest that an identical rip from a piece of free software sounds the same as one from an expensive (relatively) ripper.

The Naim US has the advantage that it rips as accurately as anything and is really easy to use; however, there are some things about it I wish were different, but then the product was not tailored especially for me, but to appeal to the majority of Naim users. The second advantage of the Naim US is its playback ability through S/PDIF. I don't have a Naim US and would not claim my set-up is as good when playing back stored music, but I am convinced it rips CDs just as well. 

I think most of us in these discussions are trying to dispel a myth that two identical things are not the same. Though I've no real issue with folk who say they can clearly demonstrate the one you pay the most for sounds better. 

All the best, Guy

Maybe this ripping yarn is just CD paranoia. 

Guy, yes I think paranoia plays a part here. On another thread there has been growing consensus of no difference what so ever in SQ between WAV file PCM rips from Naim and non Naim platforms. Also the inspected bytes of the data segment/chunk of the WAV file have been identical (certainly near the start of the samples) which to me is the conclusive proof of no differences unless the alchemists want to take over....
Yes dBpoweramp and Naim use a different WAV encoding header system from EAC ( as inspected), which could theoretically lead to different WAV decode algorithms in the renderer, but again mo one i am aware of has confirmed any SQ differences there either.
As you say it's all paranoia - what is far more relevant is how you build and  get that SPDIF signal reliably from your renderer (if used) and rebuild the sample words and clock them  for the DAC in an accurately timed manner, that is where the compromises enter the chain IMO.
I wonder if its because of this to my ears with my hifi system  the best/most enjoyable audio replay systems that Naim has for Redbook are it's CDPs, specifically in my experience marginally the CDX2 and definiitely the CDS3.

Simon

Can't someone with a hex editor, preferably someone who is hearing a difference, manually edit the front of an EAC/dbPoweramp file to the same as a Naim rip (or vice versa).  Then see if they both playback the same or am I missing something?

I think Simon did the exercise about a week ago didn’t he?

https://forums.naimaudio.com/displayForumTopic/content/4945617433364117/page/1

I’m of the believe that a properly setup ripping program will result in an accurate rip, and if this is confirmed by a match in the AccurateRip database so much the better. Either way I cannot detect a difference between ripping programs. If a rip sounds equally as good as the CD I see no reason to worry further about it’s accuracy, in my system most sound better.

Peter

So, if there is no hard evidence that there is anything flawed with a dBpoweramp rip whatsoever, where does that leave us with David Devers observation that a dBpoweramp rip sounds worse than a Naim rip on both Naim and Linn equipment?

Could he possibly be wrong?

Do Naim have a bug in their replay logic?

Likesmusic…..I think we just have to accept that different people hear different things (or think we do – not sure sometimes).

With Allen having made a file from a serve rip available for us to try briefly, I can say that to my ears I could not hear a difference, so this tells me that at my level of kit there is no difference worth worrying about. Perhaps if we all had a reference quality system it might be different, but then again it might not.

I use dbpoweramp for all my rips and am convinced that they are as good as they can be.

Just enjoy the music; only worry about it if you can hear a difference and it bothers you.

Regards,

Peter

> Just enjoy the music; only worry about it if you can hear a difference and it bothers you.

Well said 

All the best, Guy