Firmware 4.3 - "all players now ...can use Spotify Connect..."
Posted by: gert on 29 June 2015
"...all players now support the higher resolution BBC Radio HLS format, can use Spotify Connect in multiroom mode and benefit from a host of minor bug fixes. "
does this include the uniti 1 without the streaming hardware upgrade?
Will I dare to upgrade my uniti 1 after bricking it the last time? Who is trying a uniti 1 upgrade first? 
I'm afraid we like to believe that this firmware upgrade will improve SQ, but let's ask Phil.
Phil Harris,
1. Will downloading Firmware 4.3 have any impact on sound quality when playing existing flac/wav/oggs/mp3 files on existing NDX/NDS/272 etc?
In the words of a well known Naim employee: "I think they must be 'earing tings."
Has this update rectified the problem with the radio switching on randomly? Or must we still switch to a different input?
Anyone?
Yes. It is fixed.
On other matters, and in fairness to the HDX, it was never sold as a Spotify (or similar) streamer/client. I understand the desire and I trust Naim to deliver if it is possible. In the mean time, if any of us were persuaded to buy an HDX or US based on what it could NOT do at the time of purchase, we were either having a bad day or tricked by a con man. Sometimes I can con myself.
Update done on my NDX. I was not as easy as i had to install USB drivers from "strange" website (as per instruction). I was worth doing. The DSD file ripped from CD sounds significantly different than FLAV/WAV of the same file. I will test how many of my CSs will be converted to DSD. I am happy to have finally opportunity to listen to DSD files.
Update done on my NDX. I was not as easy as i had to install USB drivers from "strange" website (as per instruction). I was worth doing. The DSD file ripped from CD sounds significantly different than FLAV/WAV of the same file. I will test how many of my CSs will be converted to DSD. I am happy to have finally opportunity to listen to DSD files.
Are you ripping your CDs (which are PCM) to DSD?
Phil
Has this update rectified the problem with the radio switching on randomly? Or must we still switch to a different input?
Anyone?
Yes. It is fixed.
On other matters, and in fairness to the HDX, it was never sold as a Spotify (or similar) streamer/client. I understand the desire and I trust Naim to deliver if it is possible. In the mean time, if any of us were persuaded to buy an HDX or US based on what it could NOT do at the time of purchase, we were either having a bad day or tricked by a con man. Sometimes I can con myself.
Harry,
When I bought my HDX the other option was a Unitiserve and an NDX - which at that time was not marketed as a Spotify (or similar) streamer/client.
Of course, had I bought the NDX then it would have had the 96kHz board so I would have been snookered anyway.
The annoyance is that my Sonos didn't have Spotify either but somehow Sonos just keep on improving and adding services but Naim appear to have given up.
Internet radio but no music services? Not appropriate?
You must be having a laugh Phil.
Either Naim don't want to add services because the company wants to sell more streamers or Naim is technically not able to offer them on the server platforms. Either way this is unacceptable for current and, more importantly, future customers.
I am sorry but the HDX really is the most overpriced product in the Naim portfolio.
A product only for the most insecure and unsure newcomers to distributed audio.
I bought my HDX about 4 years ago. Naim offered - and I wanted an all Naim solution to replace my CDX2.
Had Naim discontinued it I would not have expected anything other than maintenance updates but given the current state of the market it seems unacceptable (in my opinion) to continue to market it as a one stop shop when in fact it is clearly falling behind the other products Naim offer.
If Naim has no intention of progressing the platform then maybe they should consider discontinuing it sooner rather than later so that at least today's potential customers do get lasting value for money from their purchase rather than feeling disappointed and let down.
When the HDX was launched it cost €6500. Already then it was overpriced for what it did and delivered. €4500 would have been a more reasonable price point. BUT at the time not too many people had got the hang of ripping CDs themselves. The argument that HDX rips sounded better was accepted without challenge by customers and so Naim probably sold quite a few of them. Fast forward six years and people have come to realise that they can achieve equal and better sound quality by ripping CDs themselves on their PCs or Macs and feed them into a good DAC or streamer at a fraction of the cost.
With the emergency of music services the idea that you can charge €7,998 for a product that was overpriced to begin with and now doesn't even offer access to services seems odd to say the least. You have got to have a lot of blind faith to splash out that type of money or cash to burn because it is filling up your bank account and you are running out of space to fit in all them zeros.
Don't get me wrong, the HDX HDD can be a nice and neat solution on its own or feeding a DAC and at second hand prices this product is arguably worth its money. The going rate of €3000-4000 seems fair.
I understand your position John. It can't hurt to hope. That's about all you can do but we know from experience that if it can be done, Naim will do it. There are various ways of integrating something like Spotify of course. Not perfect but can be done.
When we bought our HDX it seemed like good performance and facilities for the money. I don't think it looks such good value any more but the performance is still good, the upgrade paths are numerous and it still does lots of things. It'll even play a CD. How quaintly retro.
I understand your position John. It can't hurt to hope. That's about all you can do but we know from experience that if it can be done, Naim will do it. There are various ways of integrating something like Spotify of course. Not perfect but can be done.
When we bought our HDX it seemed like good performance and facilities for the money. I don't think it looks such good value any more but the performance is still good, the upgrade paths are numerous and it still does lots of things. It'll even play a CD. How quaintly retro.
Thanks Harry. I always value your opinion. And of course, you know the HDX well.
John
Since you already own an HDX HDD John, I would not sell it. Add a dac, PSU or both and you have in some ways a quite wonderful and neat solution that can sound pretty much as good as it gets, depending on how far you want to take it.
There is hope that Naim will come around to understand that many HDX owners may indeed want to use it as a stand alone product, rather than merely as a server to a Naim streamer and that it honestly is not fair to punish those who spent €6.5K or more by withholding music services from the server feature list. As you said, they should either discontinue the HDX or respect their customers' wishes and rewrite the server code.
It is that simple. Anything else will leave a very bad taste for current owners, I would have thought.
Since you already own an HDX HDD John, I would not sell it. Add a dac, PSU or both and you have in some ways a quite wonderful and neat solution that can sound pretty much as good as it gets, depending on how far you want to take it.
There is hope that Naim will come around to understand that many HDX owners may indeed want to use it as a stand alone product, rather than merely as a server to a Naim streamer and that it honestly is not fair to punish those who spent €6.5K or more by withholding music services from the server feature list. As you said, they should either discontinue the HDX or respect their customers' wishes and rewrite the server code.
It is that simple. Anything else will leave a very bad taste for current owners, I would have thought.
Absolutely. Well said.
John.
Why would a current HDX owner feel better if (a) Naim stopped selling the HDX all together, vs. (b) not adding streaming services to it?
Some perversity, I suppose. There is a lot of perversity in the world, and perhaps even within a few (but not many) Naim hi fi enthusiasts.
And I've never suspected that Naim are "withholding" an upgrade that can be accomplished just to punish customers. Given the number of upgrades and retro-fits for still-current products that have been offered in just the few years that I've been a customer, it seems more likely that either they haven't gotten to it yet, or it cannot be done. Or, it doesn't fit their vision of what that piece of hardware is meant to do (despite some customers wishing said hardware did it).
And I've never suspected that Naim are "withholding" an upgrade that can be accomplished just to punish customers. Given the number of upgrades and retro-fits for still-current products that have been offered in just the few years that I've been a customer, it seems more likely that either they haven't gotten to it yet, or it cannot be done.
Phil's reply suggests otherwise:
"The UnitiServe / HDX / NS0x are rippers / servers / hard disc players and therefore we will not be adding Spotify to the UnitiServe / HDX / NS0x in the same way that we will not be adding ripping to the Uniti / UnitiLite - the functionality isn't appropriate to the product."
Not appropriate? If that were the case, Naim should never have added Internet radio to begin with. To do so but then classify the addition of music services as not appropriate is not a consistent line of argument. To me this sounds more like a cop out.
Or, it doesn't fit their vision of what that piece of hardware is meant to do (despite some customers wishing said hardware did it).
Exactly. And that would be the worst reason! But as you say, based on past track record there is hope still.
Why would a current HDX owner feel better if (a) Naim stopped selling the HDX all together, vs. (b) not adding streaming services to it?
Some perversity, I suppose. There is a lot of perversity in the world, and perhaps even within a few (but not many) Naim hi fi enthusiasts.
And I've never suspected that Naim are "withholding" an upgrade that can be accomplished just to punish customers. Given the number of upgrades and retro-fits for still-current products that have been offered in just the few years that I've been a customer, it seems more likely that either they haven't gotten to it yet, or it cannot be done. Or, it doesn't fit their vision of what that piece of hardware is meant to do (despite some customers wishing said hardware did it).
Bart,
I have not said that I would feel better if it was discontinued but it would at least make Naim's intentions clear and prevent new customers from feeling aggrieved when they discover that they have parted with large sums for a unit that is at a dead end.
We live in a world where when you buy a software driven device updates and new functionality are pretty much a given. Given what has and is being charged for an HDX customers could reasonably expect such upgrades whilst it is being marketed as a current model in the range.
Update done on my NDX. I was not as easy as i had to install USB drivers from "strange" website (as per instruction). I was worth doing. The DSD file ripped from CD sounds significantly different than FLAV/WAV of the same file. I will test how many of my CSs will be converted to DSD. I am happy to have finally opportunity to listen to DSD files.
Are you ripping your CDs (which are PCM) to DSD?
Phil
I am planning to. I have received few files ripped from CD to FLAC/WAV/DSD and DSD sounds different (like more "analogue" to me) but I will see in other files/songs.
Why would a current HDX owner feel better if (a) Naim stopped selling the HDX all together, vs. (b) not adding streaming services to it?
Some perversity, I suppose. There is a lot of perversity in the world, and perhaps even within a few (but not many) Naim hi fi enthusiasts.
And I've never suspected that Naim are "withholding" an upgrade that can be accomplished just to punish customers. Given the number of upgrades and retro-fits for still-current products that have been offered in just the few years that I've been a customer, it seems more likely that either they haven't gotten to it yet, or it cannot be done. Or, it doesn't fit their vision of what that piece of hardware is meant to do (despite some customers wishing said hardware did it).
Bart,
I have not said that I would feel better if it was discontinued but it would at least make Naim's intentions clear and prevent new customers from feeling aggrieved when they discover that they have parted with large sums for a unit that is at a dead end.
We live in a world where when you buy a software driven device updates and new functionality are pretty much a given. Given what has and is being charged for an HDX customers could reasonably expect such upgrades whilst it is being marketed as a current model in the range.
Hi John,
Just what customers "expect," (rightly or wrongly) is a great topic and unfortunately confounds the issue. Maybe there is no way to un-confound these issues in this case.
I feel less of a need to protect future customers from purchasing a perfectly serviceable piece of kit than others do. If it does not provide some good vfm, then I suspect they will "vote with their feet."
Others seem to feel that Naim are 'fooling' future customers. I disagree.
Not appropriate? If that were the case, Naim should never have added Internet radio to begin with. To do so but then classify the addition of music services as not appropriate is not a consistent line of argument. To me this sounds more like a cop out.
I completely agree with you on this one, Totemphile. Really too bad that Naim doesn't seem to have any updates for their servers anymore...
Last week, I received the prices for the various HDX upgrades and was quite shocked. Example: modification of 2x 400 GB harddrive to SSD will cost me EUR 1.125!!!
Might consider a change to another brand in the future...
Many regards,
Michel
Update done on my NDX. I was not as easy as i had to install USB drivers from "strange" website (as per instruction). I was worth doing. The DSD file ripped from CD sounds significantly different than FLAV/WAV of the same file. I will test how many of my CSs will be converted to DSD. I am happy to have finally opportunity to listen to DSD files.
Are you ripping your CDs (which are PCM) to DSD?
Phil
I am planning to. I have received few files ripped from CD to FLAC/WAV/DSD and DSD sounds different (like more "analogue" to me) but I will see in other files/songs.
Correct me if I am wrong but unless you are ripping the SACD using a Sony PS2 with specific firmware, I know of no other ways of extracting the DSF from an SACD.
Dear Naim,
I fully understand music in the digital age, PCM, DSD, WAV, FLAC, streamers, servers, players and I want to experiment wildly in this brave new world. What do you mean by producing a rip CDs and store product that was aimed at the computer unsavvy (or indeed the bone idle, extremely busy people) that is also a top notch cd player in its own right?
It's disgraceful. People who have no idea what they are talking about, and more money than intelligence, could quite easily end up with the wrong product based solely on their own ignorance and inability to ask questions before spending over £5000. It's as bad as that microwave manufacturer that didn't put in the instructions that you can't dry a poodle in it. They claimed it was brilliant at cooking food. But what about her poodle?
Could you please print a warning on your site (and on all promotional material) that advises potential customers that you are not clairvoyant and cannot predict the future of the music industry. Offering a wide range of stellar products and expecting customers to choose themselves is simply not good enough. You might also consider insisting that customers/potential customers have an IQ test before thay are allowed to visit a dealership.
Yours sincerely
A Numpty
PS - I bought a Bentley with your sound system in it. I have now changed to a Ferrari and expect you to provide a FOC modification so that I can continue to enjoy the superb sound quality. And none of your cheek Harris about TVR version being first.
Correct me if I am wrong but unless you are ripping the SACD using a Sony PS2 with specific firmware, I know of no other ways of extracting the DSF from an SACD.
There is a method using a Sonoma workstation in a professional recording studio, but the most consumer-friendly method is to use a jailbroken PS3 (must be specific hardware & firmware compatible device).
I am planning to. I have received few files ripped from CD to FLAC/WAV/DSD and DSD sounds different (like more "analogue" to me) but I will see in other files/songs.
If it sounds better to you on your current setup then clearly there is nothing wrong with this at all. It might be worth considering however converting PCM to DSD is a lossy in exact process with many variables to tweak and tune. Thherefore it might be worth ripping a 'bit perfect' PCM master as well and have the album in dual directories - one DSD transcoded and one PCM. You may find if you change your system in the future you prefer the purer more consistent PCM mastered copy and it would be a pain to have to re rip everything.
Simon
Naim's server products have an entirely different architecture to its streaming products which make them very difficult to be compatible with the current updates. Blame technological advancement. They are running like old-fashioned computers. The OS for the servers so far as I am aware of is an "optimized" Windows Server 2003. Basically Naim would need to hire a separate team of software engineers for the server products which would be quite a waste of money since it's quite clear after all these years of evolution in "computer-as-source-based" playback, network streaming is the way to go.
Naim's server products have an entirely different architecture to its streaming products which make them very difficult to be compatible with the current updates. Blame technological advancement. They are running like old-fashioned computers. The OS for the servers so far as I am aware of is an "optimized" Windows Server 2003. Basically Naim would need to hire a separate team of software engineers for the server products which would be quite a waste of money since it's quite clear after all these years of evolution in "computer-as-source-based" playback, network streaming is the way to go.
Should that really be the case, fair enough, then that's how the cookie crumbled. However, if so, come out clean and tell customers that Naim will no longer develop its server range beyond what they are capable to offer at this present moment. Don't leave customers in limbo, hanging around or worse paying top money in the hope Naim will always be at the forefront of distributed audio, providing end to end solutions. Either that or cull the server range.
Better still? Come out and state there will be further developments!
Totem- too much tosh I am afraid, go and use a pic with eac or whatever enjoy I for one of many are very happy with the naim ripping server.
Yes I think there are many who will know exactly what I mean and how valuable the naim servers are.