NDX and DSD and general SQ after 4.3 firmware upgrade

Posted by: phosphocreatine on 30 June 2015

I did the upgrade this evening: everything went like a charm and after about 20 minutes the NDX was up and running again.

 

I tried some songs of David Elias which I previously stored stored on my NAS both in DSD and in HD Flac: the DSD version has a little bit more open sound and the bass is tighter (less booming).

 

I then played some Flac files that I know very well and noticed a little SQ improvement as I could get a better "equilibrium" of highs, middle and bass.

 

anybody has noticed something similar ?

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by MartinKocurek

Yes, i have posted already yesterday..  I can confirm improvement on my NDX as well. I am very satisfied with this update

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by Bert Schurink

Sounds like I should be less conservative, if it improves sound quality on my NDS as well.....

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by phosphocreatine
Originally Posted by Bert Schurink:

Sounds like I should be less conservative, if it improves sound quality on my NDS as well.....

 

Well, invest 20 minutes of your time, upgrade your NDS and tell us your impression: I'm sure everybody here would appreciate your opinion

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by phosphocreatine
Originally Posted by MartinKocurek:

Yes, i have posted already yesterday..  I can confirm improvement on my NDX as well. I am very satisfied with this update

What about DSD / Flac comparison ?

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by MartinKocurek

I am planning to compare DSD vs FLAC during weekend

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by supmario

Dear All, I have posted some information in the topic related to the new FW about DSF files created from the same source by JRiver that they sound different on NDX than FLAC. There is problem when i listen to the whole album there is annoying sound like crack in one of the channels. Any idea what went wrong? in playing or ripping?

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by Silence Kills

Did Naim something to the dynamic range of the sound?

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by HiFiman

I have also noticed a lift in performance with my UQ1 192 feeding my Hugo this evening after the update, wonder if Naim have improved the streaming section?

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by jon_jh
Updated my NDS last night...it was straight forward.  Quite a substantial change in SQ  - to my ears an improvement: bass seems to be deeper, more expansive and detailed across the board, all flowing nicely. Only time to listen to a few tracks, so more evaluation required.
Posted on: 30 June 2015 by Harry

I thought the NDS already had the DAC-DSP package deployed, which the new FW is now applying to other devices, such as the NDX. I might be mistaken. Our NDS doesn't sound any different to us - which is to say it sounds superb.

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by MarkMcK79
Originally Posted by supmario:

Dear All, I have posted some information in the topic related to the new FW about DSF files created from the same source by JRiver that they sound different on NDX than FLAC. There is problem when i listen to the whole album there is annoying sound like crack in one of the channels. Any idea what went wrong? in playing or ripping?

My guess is an error in ripping.  Do you get the same "crack"/distortion when you playback the same disc ripped to FLAC?  I'm not sure why you would want to rip PCM CDs to DSD - seems to me like it could only lead to issues or unnecessary complications... which you seem to have found.  There are just too many conversions going on.  The best sounding result is usually when things are kept simple - just rip CDs to WAV, AIFF or FLAC.

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by Bart
Originally Posted by Bert Schurink:

Sounds like I should be less conservative, if it improves sound quality on my NDS as well.....

Really really no reason not to install this, Bert.

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by IanG

I only listened to a couple of tracks after doing the update last night and they did seem to sound better but, some nights the system sounds better than others anyway. I'll have to have an extended listen before forming any definite conclusions.

 

one thing I did notice is that the bug which causes the first couple of seconds of hi res tracks to drop off hasn't been fixed :-(.

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by Foxman50

Ian

 

Which bug is this, my NDX has never done this

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by phosphocreatine
Originally Posted by Foxman50:

Ian

 

Which bug is this, my NDX has never done this

+1

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by supmario
Originally Posted by MarkMcK79:
Originally Posted by supmario:

Dear All, I have posted some information in the topic related to the new FW about DSF files created from the same source by JRiver that they sound different on NDX than FLAC. There is problem when i listen to the whole album there is annoying sound like crack in one of the channels. Any idea what went wrong? in playing or ripping?

My guess is an error in ripping.  Do you get the same "crack"/distortion when you playback the same disc ripped to FLAC?  I'm not sure why you would want to rip PCM CDs to DSD - seems to me like it could only lead to issues or unnecessary complications... which you seem to have found.  There are just too many conversions going on.  The best sounding result is usually when things are kept simple - just rip CDs to WAV, AIFF or FLAC.

The crack is heard only during "DSD" files playback. IN JRiver there are not too many possibilities to adjust ripping process...

Posted on: 30 June 2015 by hungryhalibut
Originally Posted by IanG:

I only listened to a couple of tracks after doing the update last night and they did seem to sound better but, some nights the system sounds better than others anyway. I'll have to have an extended listen before forming any definite conclusions.

 

one thing I did notice is that the bug which causes the first couple of seconds of hi res tracks to drop off hasn't been fixed :-(.

That's a surprise. It came up in beta testing and was eliminated. How odd. 

Posted on: 01 July 2015 by Harry
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:
Originally Posted by IanG:

I only listened to a couple of tracks after doing the update last night and they did seem to sound better but, some nights the system sounds better than others anyway. I'll have to have an extended listen before forming any definite conclusions.

 

one thing I did notice is that the bug which causes the first couple of seconds of hi res tracks to drop off hasn't been fixed :-(.

That's a surprise. It came up in beta testing and was eliminated. How odd. 

Was it? That is indeed odd. I still have it.

Posted on: 01 July 2015 by Harry
Originally Posted by supmario:
The crack is heard only during "DSD" files playback. IN JRiver there are not too many possibilities to adjust ripping process...

Does this crack occur between tracks?

Posted on: 01 July 2015 by Mike-B
Originally Posted by phosphocreatine:

I tried some songs of David Elias which I previously stored stored on my NAS both in DSD and in HD Flac: the DSD version has a little bit more open sound and the bass is tighter (less booming).

 

I then played some Flac files that I know very well and noticed a little SQ improvement as I could get a better "equilibrium" of highs, middle and bass.

 

anybody has noticed something similar ?

We commented on this in the beta testing reports,  it went backwards at one point,  then the last beta - effectively 4.3 - got it back again.

 

Those David Elias albums are a bit special aren't they  

Posted on: 01 July 2015 by Phil Harris
Originally Posted by Harry:

 

I thought the NDS already had the DAC-DSP package deployed, which the new FW is now applying to other devices, such as the NDX. I might be mistaken. Our NDS doesn't sound any different to us - which is to say it sounds superb.

 

 

Hi,

 

The NAC-N272 already had DSD support - 4.3 brings DSD support to the ND5XS, NDX, NDS and SuperUniti...

 

Cheers

 

Phil

 

Posted on: 01 July 2015 by Ikoun
Originally Posted by Bart:
Originally Posted by Bert Schurink:

Sounds like I should be less conservative, if it improves sound quality on my NDS as well.....

Really really no reason not to install this, Bert.

Well yes it sound different but on my side, i find yes more opened but also more edgy. The typical "analogic" of the NDS and the "S" serie is less present than before. It sounds more "audiophile" and less Naim for my first impression.

Anybody have the same findings ?
Cheers

Posted on: 01 July 2015 by phosphocreatine
Originally Posted by Mike-B:
We commented on this in the beta testing reports,  it went backwards at one point,  then the last beta - effectively 4.3 - got it back again.

 

Those David Elias albums are a bit special aren't they  

Hi Mike-B !

 

Yes, some David Elias songs are special indeed ! I thought that to test the DSD capabilities of my NDX Elias was perfect due to the fact that he is promoting actively this audio format.

Posted on: 01 July 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

As far as cracks in the DSD transcoded CDs, I highly suspect the DSD encoding process is creating errors. I certainly don't hear cracks within tracks in native DSD downloads. As said above if you are converting PCM to DSD is a lossy process that will add errors and artefacts and so normally I would see no advantage...

it is worth sharing that I understand the Naim engineers have noted there are some poor quality DSD files with encoding and format compliance errors out there. Naim have had to insert error detection and mitigation code to iron out the worst failings. It underpins the benefit from sourcing your DSD files from a reputable source where the recording and mastering has maintained in DSD.

 

The only time I get a slight pause of missing audio is occasionally at the start of the very first track after I have restarted MinimServer. It sometimes happens once but is not generally repeatable. I suspect it's more to do with the media server for me.

 

Finally I do find the firmware builds to subtly change in SQ. I understand it is usually down to the code sequencing in the SHARC processor. This latest build sounds subjectively equal best amongst the recent betas. I use the streamer to send SPDIF to an off board DAC.

Simon

 

 

Posted on: 01 July 2015 by IanG

Simon,

 

"The only time I get a slight pause of missing audio is occasionally at the start of the very first track after I have restarted MinimServer. It sometimes happens once but is not generally repeatable. I suspect it's more to do with the media server for me."

 

You may be right , but all I know is two revisions of firmware ago this never happened and now it happens all the time. To me, it is the firmware and not the media server. I've seen it reported here several times so I'm disappointed its not been fixed in this latest firmware.