Streaming update question

Posted by: John132 on 10 July 2015

New software update has just been released for the SU and others. My PC is in a different room and streams wirelessly. The video suggest they have to be cable connected for the update but can it be streamed? The video doesn't say it can but then doesn't actually say it can't be either. Disconnecting and lugging the SU to the PC is really not a tempting prospect. 

 

Any thoughts? Surely Naim must have thought of this or am I missing something?

Posted on: 11 July 2015 by Goon525
Originally Posted by Clive B:
Originally Posted by Richard Dane:

Clive, I would perhaps ask your dealer to perform the update for you.

 

No CDs can't be ripped to DSD - although files that have been ripped from CD can be converted to DSD (but not sure why you would do that as there are potential losses involved).  DSD is very much a minority interest at the moment and basically means that SACD layer rips from hacked early PS3s can be replayed without having to be converted to PCM. I have some SACDs that were ripped by a friend and that he converted to 24/88.2 PCM.  They sound pretty good.  It would be of some academic interest to compare these PCM conversions against the original ripped file, but I'm really not too fussed.  Quality of recording and mastering pretty much trumps whatever format or resolution something is issued in.  There are also a few specialist labels who record in DSD and offer DSD file downloads.

Thanks for that explanation, Richard. I don't think the latest update would offer me any benefit then, so I shan't bother until the Qobuz update arrives. 

If only...

Posted on: 13 July 2015 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by ChrisSU:
That's right, a laptop (Mac or Windows) and a USB to Mini-USB cable is all you need. Best to plug in the charger, you don't want it to go into sleep mode.
The instructions tell you to use a wired Ethernet connection for the laptop too, but I've always done it with just a WiFi connection and it's worked every time.

Thanks folks. Very helpful. I'd always faffed with a 30m (!) cable to the laptop from the router but have just updated the UQ2 with the laptop wirelessly connected to the network and wired to the UQ2 mini usb. Worked perfectly.

 

G

 

 

Posted on: 13 July 2015 by ChrisSU
Glad you got it sorted, Graeme. It seems safe doing it without the wired connection, but by way of a disclaimer, I'd refer anyone else thinking of doing this to Simon's post of 11th July, the fact that this works for some of us doesn't guarantee that it will work for everyone given different WiFi hardware and stability.
Posted on: 13 July 2015 by Mike-B

Problem is a momentary glitch in wifi could cause something bad, maybe unrecoverable & expensive.

IMO its just not worth the risk for the sake of a length of ethernet.

Like I said in a previous post,  given the numbers of laptops coming onto the market without an ethernet port,  we really do need the Naim instructions to be clarified regarding this.

Posted on: 13 July 2015 by Bart

Empirically I've had zero problems using a wifi vs. ethernet connection over about a dozen updates.  And many glitches if they occur are recoverable with a simple re-install of the new firmware.  The updater is pretty resilient in that regard.

 

But by all means, use ethernet to be extra safe.

Posted on: 13 July 2015 by Mike-B

I just read the new update instructions .pdf,  & it now has a one liner on wireless connection.

Please ensure that the product is connected to the same network as your PC via a wired connection.

If using a wireless connection, find and make a note of your products IP address. This is found by selecting List > Factory Settings > System Status > IP.

 

Bart,  I've done it once with the Naim updates,  but many times in my previous life, we did experience the occasional lost connection & although we did not experience unrecoverable damage, the particular equipment had to be hard wired to force the recovery.

Posted on: 13 July 2015 by ChrisSU
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

       

I just read the new update instructions .pdf,  & it now has a one liner on wireless connection.

Please ensure that the product is connected to the same network as your PC via a wired connection.

If using a wireless connection, find and make a note of your products IP address. This is found by selecting List > Factory Settings > System Status > IP.

 

Bart,  I've done it once with the Naim updates,  but many times in my previous life, we did experience the occasional lost connection & although we did not experience unrecoverable damage, the particular equipment had to be hard wired to force the recovery.


       
...but does this mean if you're using WiFi for your Naim streamer rather than the computer?
Posted on: 13 July 2015 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by ChrisSU:
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

       

I just read the new update instructions .pdf,  & it now has a one liner on wireless connection.

Please ensure that the product is connected to the same network as your PC via a wired connection.

If using a wireless connection, find and make a note of your products IP address. This is found by selecting List > Factory Settings > System Status > IP.

 

Bart,  I've done it once with the Naim updates,  but many times in my previous life, we did experience the occasional lost connection & although we did not experience unrecoverable damage, the particular equipment had to be hard wired to force the recovery.


       
...but does this mean if you're using WiFi for your Naim streamer rather than the computer?

That's how I read it before doing the update.

 

G

Posted on: 13 July 2015 by John132

More help needed, please.

 

Deciding better safe than sorry, plumped for long USB cable from SU to PC. Downloaded update easily, all seemed successful but the iPad app no longer recognised it. Tried the usual solution of turning the SU off and on with no success, thought I'd download date all over again.....except now in the Setup, it can't even find the network address...... and on the SU settings the IP address is 0000 so I'm back further than square 1. What next?!

Posted on: 13 July 2015 by Bart
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by ChrisSU:
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

       

I just read the new update instructions .pdf,  & it now has a one liner on wireless connection.

Please ensure that the product is connected to the same network as your PC via a wired connection.

If using a wireless connection, find and make a note of your products IP address. This is found by selecting List > Factory Settings > System Status > IP.

 

Bart,  I've done it once with the Naim updates,  but many times in my previous life, we did experience the occasional lost connection & although we did not experience unrecoverable damage, the particular equipment had to be hard wired to force the recovery.


       
...but does this mean if you're using WiFi for your Naim streamer rather than the computer?

That's how I read it before doing the update.

 

G

I read that blurb from Naim the same way -- applying to the Naim device not the laptop.  

 

Using wifi in this context is about as dangerous as I get with the home hi fi -- that or playing Yes within earshot of my wife

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by Mike-B
Originally Posted by ChrisSU:

I just read the new update instructions .pdf,  & it now has a one liner on wireless connection.

Please ensure that the product is connected to the same network as your PC via a wired connection.

If using a wireless connection, find and make a note of your products IP address. This is found by selecting List > Factory Settings > System Status > IP.

.but does this mean if you're using WiFi for your Naim streamer rather than the computer?
I read that blurb from Naim the same way -- applying to the Naim device not the laptop. 

 

------------   like I said before ----- we really do need the Naim instructions to be clarified regarding this.

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Like I said before the device should ideally be on the same wired switch connection as the update client.

This is because a layer 2 discovery technique is used to refind the network card by the update process. Wifi can not be considered reliable for such an operation. It may or may not work based on the type of  wifi access point used.

The upgrade of early betas did not have this explicit instruction, but I ran into issues in some very early beta trials with using various wifi accesspoints - both professional and consumer. After I had diagnosed the issue using network tools - I informed Naim of my findings during that beta and since then Naim have always included the wired connection recommendation

 

Simon

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by engjoo

My streamer is connected to a switch and when I perform the update with a notebook next to it, it is only practical that the network cable goes to the same switch but in my case the switch is a little out of reach so the network cable goes to my router nearby instead. Both works well for me. 

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by james n

What a faff just to update a product. 

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by The Buster
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

I use my laptop for the updates (we don't have a desktop). My SU is on a wired connection. I connect the laptop to the SU with the USB lead, download the new firmware wirelessly to the laptop and then do the update. The computer does not need a wired connection. 

 

Originally Posted by ChrisSU:
I, too, have done a number of updates with my laptop on WiFi, even though the instructions say to use wired, and they have all worked with no problems. As others have said, though, USB from computer to streamer is essential. Can you borrow a laptop?

+1 Here. Absolutely no issues at all performing all updates with my Macbook connected with WiFi. It's nonsense that a wired connection needs to be used for the updating computer/laptop.

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by hafler3o

When did plugging in 3 wires (one of which is a power lead) to a unit become so hard? Roll up sleeves, apply elbow grease, engage brian cell  35 mins later I had 3 streamers done and won a few hands of Solitaire (Vega$ rules)

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by The Buster
Originally Posted by james n:

What a faff just to update a product. 

 

Oh no, you've prodded the sleeping lion 

 

After getting home last night, my android phone connected to my home network via WiFi, and I was reliably informed via a message from the installed Sonos app that an update was avilable for my Sonos Connect. 

 

I literally tapped "update" or whatever on the phone, and the Connect updated itself over t'internet in about 30 seconds, and was ready to play 10 seconds after that. That's streaming software done properly,  it's as simple as that.

 

How hard can it be? 

 

 

 

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by dayjay
Originally Posted by hafler3o:

When did plugging in 3 wires (one of which is a power lead) to a unit become so hard? Roll up sleeves, apply elbow grease, engage brian cell  35 mins later I had 3 streamers done and won a few hands of Solitaire (Vega$ rules)

+1, I've done a shed load whilst beta testing and it really isn't that big a deal

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by sls

Hi guys!
My NDX from the first series of release and only plays 24/96.
Can I update firmware version 4.3? Now I have version 3.21

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by hafler3o
Originally Posted by dayjay:
... it really isn't that big a deal

I did lose a few hands of Solitare too!

 

I'm no expert here but the update to Naim kit is firmware not just software (or a mix of both) which, dependent upon the architecture chosen at the streamer design phase may make certain updates 'just' through an internet connection impossible. A balance point between convenience and SQ needs to chosen, maybe a bigger compromise towards convenience (like the choice of Spotify over lossless providers) would be more amenable.

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by hafler3o
Originally Posted by sls:

Hi guys!
My NDX from the first series of release and only plays 24/96.
Can I update firmware version 4.3? Now I have version 3.21

https://www.naimaudio.com/news...m-streaming-products

 

Read that and follow the relevant instructions for the 'check 192 compatibility' for NDX, sorry can't tell you for sure what the upgrade will give you but I'm reasonably sure the update can be done without an interim update stage.

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by sls

Thanks for the reply. I realized that my NDX will not play DSD64.

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by Phil Harris
Originally Posted by sls:

Hi guys!
My NDX from the first series of release and only plays 24/96.
Can I update firmware version 4.3? Now I have version 3.21

 

Hi,

 

You can update to 4.3 but you won't get Spotify Connect support on that.

 

Best Regards

 

Phil Harris

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by hungryhalibut

I've updated my firmware this morning. Connect the laptop to the SU with USB lead, plug it into the mains, download the software wirelessly to the laptop, click a few times, make a coffee, and 10 minutes later it's all done. 

 

Is it really that hard?

Posted on: 14 July 2015 by sls
Originally Posted by Phil Harris:
Hi,

 

You can update to 4.3 but you won't get Spotify Connect support on that.

 

Best Regards

 

Phil Harris

Phil, I'll ask a specific question. My NDX after updating the firmware to version 4.3 will be able to play DSD 64 files ? The other possibilities do not interest me.