Firmware 4.3 UPNP Issues - Unitilite

I'm getting the same with my ND5XS so its not my Vortexbox playing up

more BUGS

The 5 to 10 seconds is interesting as that sounds like the receive buffer at 44.1.

I have been looking at the network traces, and I am not at all certain of this, but the flow control of the media may be different from before, It appears the streamer sends a zero window size response back to the sender when its receive buffer is full, and then relies on the sender to randomly issue a zero window problem to the streamer, and only when the streamer returns with a valid window size acknowledgemet  should the sender start sending again. At a network level it appears it to look like

send >

send >

< stop

> are you ready

<no

> are you ready

<no

>are you ready

<yes

>send

But it does require the sender TCP protocol machine to fully compliant - so it might best to try with a different NAS as  the Naim may be showing up an issue or bug in the original NAS protocol machine, where the probes are being reliably sent.

Now if this has alway been so, it doesn't make sense that it should start now, but I can't remember seeing this behaviour previously when I looked at this about 18/24 months ago.

Anyway try with a different NAS/UPnP to see if it springs into life. Alas I suspect one can only be definitive in terms of diagnosing with a network trace.

Simon

Might be worth trying the switch everything off and on again tactic.

Everything off, including the router and switches.  Switch the router on and wait for it to complete start-up and stabilise, then the switch, then the NAS, then the UnitiLite.  Wait for each item to complete start-up before doing the next one.

There was a lot of beta testing on this release as well as Naim's testing, so would be surprised if this is a new bug though entirely possible of course.  If you still have problems I would log it with Naim support directly.

David

Wrong sequence nudger,  the switch needs to "learn" the MAC addresses its connected to,  therefore the NAS & UnitiLite need to be on before the switch.

The switch will eventually learn who its MAC's are,  but it will do it from the get-go if it turns on last

I've reported a similar issue to naim support where I was getting short dropouts on any files above 24 bit 96kHz i.e 24/192 flac/wav files, 24 bit 176.4 flac/wav (HD tracks), DSD64 dsf (2822kHz), DSD64 dsf (2822kHz) via DoP and DSD64 dsf transcoded to 24 bit 176.4 wav. I've tried copying files to a thumb drive and playing them via the iPod/USB input on my NDS but still have the same issue of 1 or 2 dropouts on each album.

Phil Harris has responded that this issue hadn't been reported previously but that the naim software guys would look into it so I suggest you should report your issue to naim support if you can't solve it by a full restart.      

Hello Again Everyone

Thanks all for taking the time to respond and suggest a few things. I am all for rebooting everything ( the first thing we as IT Analysts tell customers to do, it works 90% of the time!! hehe )  However not sure the difference this will make in this case, as I said I can stream the flac converted to Wav files from the same NAS (Asset UPNP running on the NAS) to two other devices on my network without issue (AV Amp and Wireless Speaker). Still I will give everything a reboot to confirm. 

I did a few more tests tonight however:

Copied the same FLAC files to a USB stick and plugging this into the USB port on the Unitilite , I have no issue playing any of the files directly in this way. 

Streamed MP3 files (44,1KHz - 128Kb to 320Kb) with no problems

Streamed ALAC files (44.1KHz, 16 bit) - Dropouts occur 

Streamed FLAC (44.1KHz, 16 Bit, 1411kbps Bitrate) - Dropouts Occur

Streamed WAV (44.1KHz , 16 Bit 1411kbps Bitrate) - Dropouts occur

I don't have anything higher to test so not sure if the problem is only on the 1411Kpbs bitrate? Maybe Simon is onto something with the network trace , i may have to do this. On the NAS i tried 3 different Upnp Apps - Builtin upnp media server, Twonky UPNP and Assett Upnp, all 3 had dropouts so even though Simons suggestion to try a different NAS may be a valid test, i don't have another NAS to try but again 2 other devices on my network have no problem if streamed the same way to them.

I have contacted Naim Support who also advised me to do the USB Test (Like they did for you sjbabbey) so I will report back to them to see what further steps can be taken.

I think I will post to Asset (Dbpoweramp) forums as well to see if maybe the update exposed something on their software .

Tomorrow I will have the chance to reboot everything (Since no-one will be home to complain about no internet for 10 minutes!!) and report back.

Thanks again 

Christo

What hardware do you use for your router and wifi?

Christo,

if what I am thinking  may be causing the issues, it will be the operating system on the NAS rather than UPnP media server that is the issue and how it reacts to a zero window response from the streamer. Of course not all streamers may work like this at the low level which is why you may not be seeing it with your other devices. Additionally the Naim device may not be responding correctly to any zero window probes, but I would expect if this was the case failure to be more common and I certainly have no issue. .My big issue with this approach is why does it appear now? and did Naim operate like in the previous firmware, I am afraid only Naim know.

Hence really this is all supposition and in the land of trial and error unless one can get a wireshark trace.

Simon

BTW FLAC unless it is uncompressed will vary but be less than 1,411kbps, typically I see 20% to 30% less throughput.

Hi,

my issues since firmware 4.3 and NDS.

Small pause (1 sec./ 1-2 times on every Album) in playback with 24/176, 24/192 and DSD64.
 
I tried playback with Usb-Stick, but the problems are the same!

No Dropouts with:
16/44 (1411 kbit/s)
24/88 (4233 kbit/s)
24/96 (4608 kbit/s)
 
Dropouts with:
DSD64 (5644 kbit/s)
24/176 (8457 kbit/s)
24/192 (9216 kbit/s)

All files (except DSD) are wav.

Rebooting everything or re running the 4.3 update didn't help.

I don't think that this is a network or Hardware problem...

Bart I have a Netgear Nighthawk R7000 which acts as a router and Wi-Fi access point . This is wired into a Cisco C2960 Switch where all my devices are wired into. My NAS is a QNAP TS469-L

. NAS is running latest firmware.

Very good questions Simon and thanks for the info. I can certainly try a Wireshark trace though I have not really used Wireshark so might need some guidance if you don't mind.

GST,

Your problem is identical to the issue I've reported to naim support. Can you also report it to them (email address is in a sticky) as Phil Harris indicated that no one else had reported this problem (but he had referred it to their software guys)

Steve

Yup - I have logged this in our issues database and the software guys are looking into it but if anyone is having this issue then email me directly (support@naimaudio.com) and I'll get you added to the report and your information in there...

The more information that we can get the easier it will be to find the problem...

Phil