NAS, or Hard Drive broken?

Posted by: Davinadavis on 10 August 2015

I have a single bay Qnap NAS, TS 112. Yesterday, I noticed a loud, continuous clicking sound coming from the drive. Also, I was unable to access the drive's server via the Naim app, or its IP address On my computer.

 

I unplugged all cables, then re connected them 10 minutes later to find that the loud clicking sound had gone, but was still unable to access the drive via the app, or it's IP address.

 

Using QFinder, I attempted to set up the NAS from scratch, only to receive a message in red, stating "Hard Drive Missing". The status lights show the following, HDD solid green, NAS status continuous flashing green, LAN orange.

 

I am trying to determine if it's the Qnap NAS that's failed, the HDD, or both?

 

If someone can advise, it would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by Huge

In my experience of system, from the symptoms you describe, it's most likely to be the drive that's failed.  However I can't be certain of that, as there are some other faults that can cause the same symptoms (such as a fault in the drive interface or in one of the cables connecting the drive to the electronics).

 

I would suggest getting another disk and trying it.  If you find it still doesn't work, replace it with a 2 bay NAS and put both drives in it!

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by Davinadavis
Originally Posted by Huge:

In my experience of system, from the symptoms you describe, it's most likely to be the drive that's failed.  However I can't be certain of that, as there are some other faults that can cause the same symptoms (such as a fault in the drive interface or in one of the cables connecting the drive to the electronics).

 

I would suggest getting another disk and trying it.  If you find it still doesn't work, replace it with a 2 bay NAS and put both drives in it!

If I do need to get a new NAS, I'll probably go for a Synology that has a bigger processor than the Qnap. Currently, my present Qnap's processor can't cope with transcoding. I guess I could purchase a cheap USB caddy and mount the old HDD, and see if I can it works connected to my iMac. Not sure if my Mac will be able to read the HDD though?

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by Camlan
Originally Posted by Davinadavis:
Originally Posted by Davinadavis:
Originally Posted by Camlan:
Originally Posted by garyi:

For those of you that can accommodate it, ie, have the nas away from the hifi, I would suggest the purchase of something a bit more robust, single bay nas drives really are the lowest of the pile in terms of capability, redundancy and usefulness. If you have spent circa 2k on piece of hifi surely you can spend just ten percent more on a decent, proper server?

 

You can still pick up hp prolient N54Ls for silly money, upgradable, capable and fast. Or a second hand dell precision t3400 for peanuts, these can squeeze 6 harddrives in on the on board sata and power.

 

If you must go 'out of the box' the for god sake don't pick the cheapest thing you can find it will only end in tears

 

I think that's quite right and reasonable if you want the NAS as a Server but mine is wholly as a back up for my Unitiserve and absolutely nothing else. Even having said that I might look for something more suitable going forward but not with 6 hard drives!

 

Anyway I appear to have got it working again by restarting it without the HDD inserted as per the QNAP forum suggestion and it's merrily backing up now so fingers crossed it continues although the pessimist in me doubts it.

Camlan...Please tell me more, what did you do?

Camlan, I have just tried what the forum suggested, but keep getting the same message in red,"Hard Drive Missing". It does not allow me to progress into the control centre, or any other part of the NAS.

OK. Power down the NAS. Take out the Hard Drive and Power On. In the control panel you should see the usual Hard Drive Missing (because it is). Insert the Hard Drive and it should offer you the chance to start set up through the Control Function, It will then tell you it has detected a Hard Drive that has previously been used by a QNAP NAS and offer the chance to restore factory settings, select this and cross your fingers - it took me 2 attempts but worked in the end. Control Panel is still showing a Hard Drive problem but when I complete the download I intend to they a full test and see how I go.

 

Good Luck!

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by Huge
Originally Posted by Camlan:
OK. Power down the NAS. Take out the Hard Drive and Power On. In the control panel you should see the usual Hard Drive Missing (because it is). ...Power down the NAS again and... Insert the Hard Drive and it should offer you the chance to start set up through the Control Function, It will then tell you it has detected a Hard Drive that has previously been used by a QNAP NAS and offer the chance to restore factory settings, select this and cross your fingers - it took me 2 attempts but worked in the end. Control Panel is still showing a Hard Drive problem but when I complete the download I intend to they a full test and see how I go.

 

Good Luck!

Most NAS systems and drives are not hot pluggable.

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by Camlan
Originally Posted by Huge:
Originally Posted by Camlan:
OK. Power down the NAS. Take out the Hard Drive and Power On. In the control panel you should see the usual Hard Drive Missing (because it is). ...Power down the NAS again and... Insert the Hard Drive and it should offer you the chance to start set up through the Control Function, It will then tell you it has detected a Hard Drive that has previously been used by a QNAP NAS and offer the chance to restore factory settings, select this and cross your fingers - it took me 2 attempts but worked in the end. Control Panel is still showing a Hard Drive problem but when I complete the download I intend to they a full test and see how I go.

 

Good Luck!

Most NAS systems and drives are not hot pluggable.

No I did it as described and inserted the HD with Power On. The whole idea appears to be inserting the HD with Power on from what I can see.

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by Davinadavis
Originally Posted by Camlan:
Originally Posted by Davinadavis:
Originally Posted by Davinadavis:
Originally Posted by Camlan:
Originally Posted by garyi:

For those of you that can accommodate it, ie, have the nas away from the hifi, I would suggest the purchase of something a bit more robust, single bay nas drives really are the lowest of the pile in terms of capability, redundancy and usefulness. If you have spent circa 2k on piece of hifi surely you can spend just ten percent more on a decent, proper server?

 

You can still pick up hp prolient N54Ls for silly money, upgradable, capable and fast. Or a second hand dell precision t3400 for peanuts, these can squeeze 6 harddrives in on the on board sata and power.

 

If you must go 'out of the box' the for god sake don't pick the cheapest thing you can find it will only end in tears

 

I think that's quite right and reasonable if you want the NAS as a Server but mine is wholly as a back up for my Unitiserve and absolutely nothing else. Even having said that I might look for something more suitable going forward but not with 6 hard drives!

 

Anyway I appear to have got it working again by restarting it without the HDD inserted as per the QNAP forum suggestion and it's merrily backing up now so fingers crossed it continues although the pessimist in me doubts it.

Camlan...Please tell me more, what did you do?

Camlan, I have just tried what the forum suggested, but keep getting the same message in red,"Hard Drive Missing". It does not allow me to progress into the control centre, or any other part of the NAS.

OK. Power down the NAS. Take out the Hard Drive and Power On. In the control panel you should see the usual Hard Drive Missing (because it is). Insert the Hard Drive and it should offer you the chance to start set up through the Control Function, It will then tell you it has detected a Hard Drive that has previously been used by a QNAP NAS and offer the chance to restore factory settings, select this and cross your fingers - it took me 2 attempts but worked in the end. Control Panel is still showing a Hard Drive problem but when I complete the download I intend to they a full test and see how I go.

 

Good Luck!

The system will not let me get to the control panel. I am only presented with one page, "Hard Drive Missing".

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by garyi

Mate your harddrive has failed. Come to peace with it.

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by Guy007

This is a sad situation for sure, hopefully there is a happy end. It shows the value in back ups too.

 

That said, several QNAP systems have been mentioned, but no one has once mentioned the hard drive manufacturer / model / disk size et al of the drives that have failed.  All hard drives are equal, but some hard drives are more equal than others. It's important to ensure that you get ones on the manufacturer approved list and ideally 'made for NAS'.  If it's one of those that have failed, it is truly bad luck for sure.

 

One thing to check on the NAS, is the air flow. The air intake at front/side can draw in dust, also it can stay on the fan on the back.  It's important to keep clear so the hard drives don't get too hot, so a blast with a compressed air can is a good monthly maintenance to stop any clogging.

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by jfritzen
Originally Posted by Davinadavis:
I guess I could purchase a cheap USB caddy and mount the old HDD, and see if I can it works connected to my iMac. Not sure if my Mac will be able to read the HDD though?

The USB caddy should work and your iMac/Disk Utility would probably show the disk, but you won't be able to access the content: Most NAS filers use Linux file systems ext3 or ext4 for their internal disks which the Mac does not support.

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by Davinadavis
Originally Posted by Guy007:

This is a sad situation for sure, hopefully there is a happy end. It shows the value in back ups too.

 

That said, several QNAP systems have been mentioned, but no one has once mentioned the hard drive manufacturer / model / disk size et al of the drives that have failed.  All hard drives are equal, but some hard drives are more equal than others. It's important to ensure that you get ones on the manufacturer approved list and ideally 'made for NAS'.  If it's one of those that have failed, it is truly bad luck for sure.

 

One thing to check on the NAS, is the air flow. The air intake at front/side can draw in dust, also it can stay on the fan on the back.  It's important to keep clear so the hard drives don't get too hot, so a blast with a compressed air can is a good monthly maintenance to stop any clogging.

Hello Guy007

 

The 1TB Seagate Baracuda HDD in question, was from the official Qnap list of compatible discs for the TS-112.

 

When I opened the enclosure it was immaculate inside, no dust or dirt. The enclosure has excellent airflow. 

 

Yes, I have two separate backups to fall back on.

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by Davinadavis
Originally Posted by garyi:

Mate your harddrive has failed. Come to peace with it.

I agree garyi 

Posted on: 10 August 2015 by HiFiman
Originally Posted by Guy007:

This is a sad situation for sure, hopefully there is a happy end. It shows the value in back ups too.

 

That said, several QNAP systems have been mentioned, but no one has once mentioned the hard drive manufacturer / model / disk size et al of the drives that have failed.  All hard drives are equal, but some hard drives are more equal than others. It's important to ensure that you get ones on the manufacturer approved list and ideally 'made for NAS'.  If it's one of those that have failed, it is truly bad luck for sure.

 

One thing to check on the NAS, is the air flow. The air intake at front/side can draw in dust, also it can stay on the fan on the back.  It's important to keep clear so the hard drives don't get too hot, so a blast with a compressed air can is a good monthly maintenance to stop any clogging.

Also add a UPS to your NAS can be bought for around fifty quid

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Huge
Originally Posted by Davinadavis:
...

The 1TB Seagate Baracuda HDD in question, was from the official Qnap list of compatible discs for the TS-112.

...

It may be on the approved list for the enclosure, but unfortunately it's not suitable for the duty cycle of routine NAS use: it's a desktop drive.  That's probably why it failed.

 

I would recommend replacing with a WD Red (WD10EFRX, WD20EFRX, WD30EFRX), they are on the approved list and are much more reliable in NAS use.

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Mike-B

--  the post I made a while back on HD reliability --

A report by ExtremeTech showed Seagate were least reliable & by some margin,  WD were significantly better with Hitachi best,  but only marginally better than WD.  

 

Yes +1 for WD Red

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Davinadavis
Originally Posted by Huge:
Originally Posted by Davinadavis:
...

The 1TB Seagate Baracuda HDD in question, was from the official Qnap list of compatible discs for the TS-112.

...

It may be on the approved list for the enclosure, but unfortunately it's not suitable for the duty cycle of routine NAS use: it's a desktop drive.  That's probably why it failed.

 

I would recommend replacing with a WD Red (WD10EFRX, WD20EFRX, WD30EFRX), they are on the approved list and are much more reliable in NAS use.

Thank you Huge

 

In the long list of approved discs, they are actually labelled 'NAS Drives', 'Enterprise Drives' (whatever they are?) and 'Desktop Drives'. If this is the case, why on earth do they suggest putting a Desktop Drive in to one of their NAS enclosures?

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Davinadavis
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

--  the post I made a while back on HD reliability --

A report by ExtremeTech showed Seagate were least reliable & by some margin,  WD were significantly better with Hitachi best,  but only marginally better than WD.  

 

Yes +1 for WD Red

Thank you Mike, then WD Red it shall be. 

 

If I get the WD Red HDD and it turns out that the Qnap enclosure is faulty, will the WD Red fit a Synology? As I think that you use one of those.

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Mike-B

If I get the WD Red HDD and it turns out that the Qnap enclosure is faulty, will the WD Red fit a Synology? As I think that you use one of those.

 

Yes WD Reds are installed in my Synology

- its a 2 bay so its 2x Reds.  If you do change the NAS please be sure to get a 2 bay at least, its enables RAID-1 which gives extra security if a single HD fails

Unlike most other disks that run at 7200rpm,  WD Reds run at 5400rpm which is claimed to reduce power consumption. 

Also if you do change to Synology,  they have a HDD hibernation program that significantly reduces power on hours (POH) with typical home audio use.

 

Further to Huge's points on "Enterprise" (strange name) & desk top drives

Seagate documented the POH on their DCDs to be 2400 hrs per year

-  24 x 365 = 8760 hrs  !!!

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by robgr
Originally Posted by garyi:

Mate your harddrive has failed. Come to peace with it.

LOL. I've been down this route myself and looking back it's amusing how one goes into a form of denial. It feels that as the HD is the heart of the system it's just so terminal when you finally pronounce. In my case I just refused to see what was so obvious at the time and felt compelled to seek a second onion. RIP HD. This HD is no more! He has ceased to be! etc.etc.

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by robgr
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

--  the post I made a while back on HD reliability --

A report by ExtremeTech showed Seagate were least reliable & by some margin,  WD were significantly better with Hitachi best,  but only marginally better than WD.  

 

Yes +1 for WD Red

+1 for TS-212P and 2 x WD Red 3TB in RAID1 (Thanks to Mr. Hopkins for his guidance here)

Roughly six months in and so far, so good. No issues streaming 1080p movies or 24/192 downloads but not at the same time though :-)

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Davinadavis
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

--  the post I made a while back on HD reliability --

A report by ExtremeTech showed Seagate were least reliable & by some margin,  WD were significantly better with Hitachi best,  but only marginally better than WD.  

 

Yes +1 for WD Red

Thank you Mike.

 

I have a computer guy coming round later, to test the HDD. And I'll report back.

 

I see Amazon are doing the WD Reds for £56.

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Davinadavis
Originally Posted by robgr:
Originally Posted by garyi:

Mate your harddrive has failed. Come to peace with it.

LOL. I've been down this route myself and looking back it's amusing how one goes into a form of denial. It feels that as the HD is the heart of the system it's just so terminal when you finally pronounce. In my case I just refused to see what was so obvious at the time and felt compelled to seek a second onion. RIP HD. This HD is no more! He has ceased to be! etc.etc.

Thanks robgr 

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Davinadavis
Originally Posted by Huge:
Originally Posted by Davinadavis:
...

The 1TB Seagate Baracuda HDD in question, was from the official Qnap list of compatible discs for the TS-112.

...

It may be on the approved list for the enclosure, but unfortunately it's not suitable for the duty cycle of routine NAS use: it's a desktop drive.  That's probably why it failed.

 

I would recommend replacing with a WD Red (WD10EFRX, WD20EFRX, WD30EFRX), they are on the approved list and are much more reliable in NAS use.

Thank you Huge, yes they are on the list, and are £56 on Amazon!

 

I have a computer guy coming round later to test the Seagate HDD. I'll report back.

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Camlan

The HDD in mine is a Seagate as well so that may explain the problems I am having - its working OK  now but that won't last. The QNAP App is telling me there are problems with:

 

Reallocated_Sector_CT

Current_Pending_Sector

Offline_Uncorrectable

 

If that means anything to anybody but I think I feel the need for a WD Red as well.

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Bart

WD Red drives really are well accepted for nas use.  There is a new more expensive series, Red "pro," but as far as I can tell the differences are (1) they guarantee 7200 rpm with pro, not so with the regular Red (not an issue for me; transfer speeds are more than sufficient with regular Red drives for my uses, and (2) 5 yr vs. 3 yr warranty.

Posted on: 11 August 2015 by Guy007
Originally Posted by Mike-B:

--  the post I made a while back on HD reliability --

A report by ExtremeTech showed Seagate were least reliable & by some margin,  WD were significantly better with Hitachi best,  but only marginally better than WD.  

 

Yes +1 for WD Red

Hitachi are also now known as HGST. So +1 for these drives.

 

Davina, within the QNAP admin control panel, you should also be able to turn on some power savings settings as well. I hope all goes well with the new drive and glad to hear it should just be a case of copying over from the backup.

 

Hifiman, fair point on the UPS too.

 

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned if you do take out your drives for cleaning et al - if you have multiple - ensure you label them 1,2,3,4 and put them back in the same sequence, otherwise this could cause confusion for the NAS.