Choosing a Cartridge for an Olive Naim System

koetsu?

Tonearm?

IMO a vinyl front end on a Naim set up yours  will benefit enormously from taking a systematic approach to upgrading your LP12. You don't say much about your LP12 spec, but the recommended approach would be sub-chassis, (Keel or Kore) - Radikal motor - Ekos (2 or SE ideally) - cartdridge (Kandid is the 'made for' option) then Urika.  The special discount on the Radikal packahe might persuade you to do the Urika at the same time as the motor and save £600.

Taking that route might involve putting a Klyde in to an Ekos if you don't have immediate access to the cash for the full upgrade.

That lot will set you back quite a bit but if you have the opportunity to demo that spec LP12 in your great Naim system I think you would be astonished.

Basik Plus

Which Prefix? S or K?

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

The Dynavectors represent great bang for buck!

I'd be inclined to take the advice of Bluedog. I'd be looking to better the tonearm and/or turntable spec before spending too much on a good moving coil.

Prefix S.

I agree that a good cartridge might not be the most important first upgrade, but the turntable doesn't have a cartridge at the moment.  So, rather than buy something cheap and replace it in a year or two, I decided to get something which would still be relevant later on down the upgrade path.

I can see your apparent logic here, but it's a deceiver. Any Sondek expert worth their salt will tell you that give two identical decks, one with a Basik+ and a top MC, and the other with an Ittok/Ekos etc.. and a basic cart like an AT95E then the latter is by far the more enjoyable deck.

So...  better by far to ditch the Basik+ and spend the £6-700 or so (£600 for the Dynavector and £100 for the sale of the Basik) on the best Ittok you can find (for that money you should be able to get a minter from a specialist) and then spend the rest on a cheap LO MC cartridge for your Prefix. Or, if you want to a go a bit left-field then try either a Roksan Nima or a Jelco SA-750D instead.  Both are excellent arms and unlike the Basik+ are up to working well with an MC - they also give you a bit more money for the cartridge.  Note that the Roksan will need a new arm board whereas the Jelco is Linn-fit (just).  However, I'd go for a really nice Ittok myself because it was made for your deck.

Now, I'm assuming that as you are running with a Prefix then you have an off board power supply for the LP12?

No, it has a Valhalla.

The end game is an Armageddon, but I'll take my time and get one which matches the vintage of my other components.

The reason for the Prefix is that my 52 has 526/1 boards. I could have saved some money and bought 523 boards but, again, I decided to go straight for the final choice component.

As for the arm, it will eventually be an Aro when I find one, so maybe that needs to be figured in to consideration for the cartridge.

I do realise I'm doing things out of order, but I'd rather go straight to the final choice component.

OK, well if the Aro and armageddon are coming next week or next month then I guess I can understand, but if not, I fear you're wasting your money on the Dynavector.  Every minute you listen to it is precious and the clock is ticking until it needs replacement.  If you're determined to stick with the Basik+ for now then go for a modest cart that will work far better in it - save your money for the upgrades to come.  

That's interesting.  So how much time do you get from them before they need to be replaced?  What actually wears out within a cartridge, except for the stylus that is.

If I were to forgo the Dynavector, what would you recommend instead?

Stylus and suspension wear out.  As to how long is down to condition of LPs, competence of arm, set-up etc.. but you can reckon on around 500 hours as a guideline.  Of course, one wooly jumper can end it all in a matter of moments...

If you want to keep the Basik+ on there for now and just want to get up and running I'd go for an AT95E for about £30 and something like a Project Phono box SE (@£50 s/h) or Rega phono or Cambridge thingamee or similar.  All surprisingly good and available for under £100.  Keep the (MC only) Prefix standing by for when you get serious with the Armageddon and Aro.  Put all the money you have just saved in the jar marked "Aro and Armegddon fund".

Excuse my ignorance, but the stylus is replaceable isn't it?

As for suspension, do you get cartridges refurbished or do they just go in the bin after 500 hours?

Is there anything cheap I could use with the Prefix?

With a few notable exceptions such as the old Satin and Audio Technica (AT30/31 and AT3100), most all MC cartridges have a fixed stylus.  Most all MM cartridges have replaceable styli.  

As for rebuilding MC carts, it's not without controversy. First you have to find someone who can do it.  Then there's usually a long waiting list.  Then, you find out whether it's just a re-tip, or maybe a new cantilever is needed or perhaps suspension as well.  And then what you get back may not be what you expected.  I recall testing a number of rebuilt Troikas from different sources some years back and they all sounded quite different, and markedly inferior to a low hours original.  Now, that may just have been because they were newly rebuilt and needed running in but it did highlight that not all rebuilds are the same. Anyway, this could be a whole new topic - bottom line is whether it makes financial sense; on a sub £500 cartridge, probably not, but on a £1000+ cartridge or one that is rare, sought after and long out of production such as the Troika, vintage SPU, Koetsu, Kiseki etc.. it does make some sense.  Also bear in mind that many current makers of MC cartridges offer a trade in allowance for your old MC cartridge.  

As for a cheap MC for use with the Prefix, that's not the problem here; there are plenty of cheap MCs but pretty much none of them will work properly in your Basik arm.  

The cheapest MC, the Denon DL-103 is totally unsuitable here.  It needs a hefty arm or a very good unipivot to work properly.  It can work well in the Jelco SA750D arm so long as you have a hefty headshell and the heavy counterweight.  

There are the cheap Audio Technica MCs; they are good if a little lightweight in balance but work well in the old Sondek and you might just about get away with something like an AT-F2/3/5/7 in the Basik+.  I think this comes in just over £100.  There are also the entry level Ortofons to consider.

You basically want something that is fairly high in compliance if the bearings in the Basik aren't going to be rattled to hell.  Either way, I'd still go with an AT95E and a decent inexpensive MM stage for now until you're ready to jump in with the Aro and Armageddon.

I think the Ortofon Quintet Red is around £200. The Goldring Eroica is £130 (and meant to be pretty good for the money). I'd steer clear of the AT-F3 & 5 (bright and nasty is my recollection). The AT-OC9 is meant to be pretty good.

But all these are for nought in a Basik+ in my opinion. Sure, they'll fit, but that's about it.

The thing is, if you have a Prefix S then moving to an MM means a rewire, doesn't it?  So from an outlay point of view, it'd make more sense to get an MC. Of the above, I'd go with the Ortofon - brand new design and good cartridge by all accounts. Just keep a weather eye out for an Ittok or better - or consider that Roksan Nima. I think the Ortofon + Nima combined wouldn't be much more than just the cost of the Dynavector you were considering. Well, ok, maybe £170 more...

Oh shucks, the Nima would have to be non-standard to wire into the Prefix...oh I give up...

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Frank,

The Prefix is MC only, either E, S or K. 

I like the idea of an Eroica for £130. I think the number 3 comes first though.... 

The OC9 MLII is very good but even at its ridiculously bargain Stateside price I'm not sure how well it will work with the Basik arm.  You need at least an Ittok here.

I'll admit it has been many years since I heard the AT-F3 and F5.  They could certainly be a bit bright...  Their inclusion here is purely because they are LO MC, they will work into a Prefix S and they should be just about OK in the Basik+.  Beyond that, I have no idea how well they would work.  

The Orto Quintet Red is a possibility I suppose and can be bought cheaply.  That could be the safest bet, but again I have no idea how well it will work in the Basik arm.

If sticking with the Basik arm, my own preference is for an MM (see above).

Thanks for all of your advice and assistance Richard.  It really is much appreciated.

So the Basik will go and it's either an Ittok or maybe an Ekos.

I don't really want to invest too much here because they're just interim solutions until an Aro appears.  OK, that could be a while I guess.

So if it's an Ittok, is there much between the II and III?

What would be a reasonable choice for an MC cartridge to suit that?

I'll save the DV20 until the Aro shows up I think.

Hello Jack

If you contact a certain dealer in Leicester, he will be able to explain just how highly he rates a Roksan Nima tonearm on an LP12.  He may even p/x your tonearm towards the cost of the Nima.

He will also explain the relative merits and likely cost differences between the Ittoks and the Nima.

Just a thought.

Best regards, FT

Re. the Ittok, don't fret over whether it's a II or III.  A late II is nice, a III nicer still but you should buy on condition and don't pay over the odds just for a III or a black version of either. If in doubt, buy from a recognised specialist who will know the good from the bad.  The Dynavector won't be wasted in such an arm.  If you want to spend less then the AT-OC9 MLII works particularly well here.

I'm sure others will have some further ideas.

Showing my lack of knowledge again: is an Ekos much better than an Ittok?

Ekos vs Ittok- will stimulate a healthy debate. One thing is certain...the Aro is better than both!!

ATB,

Mark

Ekos vs Ittok- will stimulate a healthy debate. One thing is certain...the Aro is better than both!!

Had Ittok LVII (bearings died), auditioned Ekos vs Aro. Have Aro. Nuff said. 

Have Aro. Nuff said. 

I wish I could say that.  The hardest part is finding one.