Choosing a Cartridge for an Olive Naim System

Posted by: Jack911 on 13 August 2015

I'm new to vinyl, being in the final stages of purchasing my first turntable in approximately thirty years.

 

I've chosen a 1990's LP12 which will be fitted with a newly-serviced Prefix. The remainder of the unit is pretty much standard at the moment.

 

It will be feeding a 52/SC with 4*135s into Neat MF9s.

 

I haven't decided on a cartridge yet, although the current favourite is a Dynavector DV-20X2.

 

I was wondering which cartridges would be the most likely to be compatible with the "Naim" sound; specifically, the sound of the olive series.

 

Any suggestions?

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by dektop100

I guess I don't really understand your intention of trying to source the extremely scarce Naim ARO - is it even serviceable in the event of problems? RD is right in his observations comparing the Linn LVX against one of their 'Super-Arms' like the Ittok or Ekos. I've had all three. There really is NO comparison. The Basik arm is just to get you started. The difference between the LVX and Ittok is much greater than Ittok to Ekos.

I don't think anyone has mentioned how important the set up of the LP 12 is (good dealer) - but it's frequently said in other posts. Also, the deck is very sensitive to what it's placed on. A light rigid wall frame (like the Audiotech of many years ago) is ideal - and will really let you hear what the deck is capable of. 

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by varyat

Pre loved Aro's are out there in the wild and obtainable if you are patient.

Naim will still service an Aro and bring it up to like new spec- they are really a very simple design.

Challenge is finding a COMPLETE Aro with all of its' bits . Bearing cup and pillar are really the main areas of "wear" that need to be checked . Some dealers in the UK will keep you in mind if you let them know you are looking for one- a waiting list .

Good luck with the search!

ATB,

Mark

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by Jack911
Originally Posted by dektop100:

I guess I don't really understand your intention of trying to source the extremely scarce Naim ARO - is it even serviceable in the event of problems?

Well, actually, yes it is.  For around £200 from the good folk at Naim.

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by Jack911
Originally Posted by varyat:

Challenge is finding a COMPLETE Aro with all of its' bits.

What bits would be missing?

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by varyat

A few "bits" that seem to be missing often include the bubble level, the Ortofon tracking weight scale , the azimuth counterweight. Granted, not all are necessary for an install but it is nice to have a complete set including the original box and packing. 

Certain items are not replaceable-if the bearing pillar is damaged you will have a very hard time sourcing a new one. Probably best to walk away...

ATB,

Mark

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by Jack911

Thanks Mark.  Very useful information.

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by b_lund

A Nima arm w/Shure M97xe will bring you lovely performance at a silly decent price - you will need 522 cards for the preamp and an expert to setup your LP12

basik arms are for AT95 cartridges basically (K5/K9) TBH a crappy arm, a Rega RB250/300 is much better, not even the most die hard Linn fanatic will create protest, sell it on while you can

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by varyat

The Nima is a great alternative- good call b-lund

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by SS250

I have a Naim Prefix S with a Linn Ekos SE. I now have an Ortofon Red Rondo m/c cartridge which I was able to source cost effectively on Ebay. This works really well with my LP12 and Supernait 2. Highly recommended. Was listening to Eric Clapton Unplugged through it this afternoon, absolute bliss....

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by kuma
 

Originally Posted by varyat:

Naim will still service an Aro and bring it up to like new spec- they are really a very simple design.

Challenge is finding a COMPLETE Aro with all of its' bits . Bearing cup and pillar are really the main areas of "wear" that need to be checked . Some dealers in the UK will keep you in mind if you let them know you are looking for one- a waiting list .

Good luck with the search!

Mark,

 

I was told that Naim no longer has any bearing, arm rest or a plug left in their inventory. Bearing housing is so easily abused.

 

My ARO is at the repair at AV Options and the fault was a plug. Chris had 3 extra plugs but guess what! there was only one worked. He told me Naim no longer has it so if someone needed this part, he needs to source it from somewhere. Luckily, tho, unlike the bearing which is a custom piece by Naim, it was an off-the-shelf item.

 

I wonder how long Naim can stock any other parts for this legacy product.

 

It's nice to know they still offer rewiring service, tho.

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by Chris Dolan
Originally Posted by varyat:

Ekos vs Ittok- will stimulate a healthy debate. One thing is certain...the Aro is better than both!!

I don't think that it is quite that simple Mark  - but I do use and love the Aro and I think that it is  great shame that it is no longer manufactured.

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by varyat
Originally Posted by kuma:
 

Originally Posted by varyat:

Naim will still service an Aro and bring it up to like new spec- they are really a very simple design.

Challenge is finding a COMPLETE Aro with all of its' bits . Bearing cup and pillar are really the main areas of "wear" that need to be checked . Some dealers in the UK will keep you in mind if you let them know you are looking for one- a waiting list .

Good luck with the search!

Mark,

 

I was told that Naim no longer has any bearing, arm rest or a plug left in their inventory. Bearing housing is so easily abused.

 

My ARO is at the repair at AV Options and the fault was a plug. Chris had 3 extra plugs but guess what! there was only one worked. He told me Naim no longer has it so if someone needed this part, he needs to source it from somewhere. Luckily, tho, unlike the bearing which is a custom piece by Naim, it was an off-the-shelf item.

 

I wonder how long Naim can stock any other parts for this legacy product.

 

It's nice to know they still offer rewiring service, tho.

Kuma,

I think you are correct-these parts are long gone. I guess what I meant is that Naim can still rewire, refresh an Aro that is still in good condition and bring it back  to spec. Good to hear that Chris has the knowledge to source a comparable part for you.He is a lifesaver in this part of the Naim world.

Atb,

Mark

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by varyat
Originally Posted by Chris Dolan:
Originally Posted by varyat:

Ekos vs Ittok- will stimulate a healthy debate. One thing is certain...the Aro is better than both!!

I don't think that it is quite that simple Mark  - but I do use and love the Aro and I think that it is  great shame that it is no longer manufactured.

100% Chris. Who knows, maybe someday an Aro 2 may rise up? I'm not holding my breath....

ATB,

Mark

Posted on: 14 August 2015 by kuma

Mark,

 

I took the last working plug from Chris to fix my ARO. So next time then he needs to go hunt!

 

I am kicking myself I did not get the 4th complete ARO!

Posted on: 12 October 2015 by Jack911

So about two months ago I managed to source a late Aro.  Lucky me!

 

The configuration of the LP12 is now:

  • Aro tonearm
  • pre-Cirkus bearing
  • Valhalla power supply

The big question remaining is what cartridge to use.

 

So far, the candidates, ordered by cost, are:

  • £180 - Denon DL103
  • £370 - Audio Technica AT-OC9ML/II
  • £600 - Dynavector DV-20X2

Each step up the ladder involves an approximate doubling of the price.

 

In ordinary circumstances, I'd go for the DV-20; however, a recent bout of unemployment is pushing me towards the cheaper alternatives.

 

The question is: how much difference will there be between the LP12 with the DL103 and the DV-20?

 

The other complicating factor is that my other source is a CDSII, which is no slouch either.

Posted on: 12 October 2015 by bluedog
Originally Posted by Jack911:

So about two months ago I managed to source a late Aro.  Lucky me!

 

The configuration of the LP12 is now:

  • Aro tonearm
  • pre-Cirkus bearing
  • Valhalla power supply

The big question remaining is what cartridge to use.

 

So far, the candidates, ordered by cost, are:

  • £180 - Denon DL103
  • £370 - Audio Technica AT-OC9ML/II
  • £600 - Dynavector DV-20X2

Each step up the ladder involves an approximate doubling of the price.

 

In ordinary circumstances, I'd go for the DV-20; however, a recent bout of unemployment is pushing me towards the cheaper alternatives.

 

The question is: how much difference will there be between the LP12 with the DL103 and the DV-20?

 

The other complicating factor is that my other source is a CDSII, which is no slouch either.

I refer you to the earlier comments; there's not really much point in asking for advice if you ignore it.  

 

There is a well tried and tested pathway to getting the optimum performance from an LP12 and in your case the next step would be to spend £400 of your money on the Cirkus upgrade - then the sub-chassis then the power source - then the cart.

Posted on: 12 October 2015 by Jack911
Originally Posted by bluedog:

I refer you to the earlier comments; there's not really much point in asking for advice if you ignore it.  

 

Perhaps you should read the question.

 

It's about what cartridge to use, not what improvements one could make to the LP12.

Posted on: 12 October 2015 by Chris Dolan

Now that you have an Aro I'd say the arm is sorted.

 

However next on my list would be a Cirkus (some disagree - and to be fair I wrongly thought they were right for a while) and then a better power supply - and would consider a Kore.

 

While I saved up for those I'd be inclined to stick with the least expensive cartridge that worked.

Posted on: 12 October 2015 by kuma

ARO isn't that picky with cartridges. It all depends on a personal taste and budget.

 

My choice for a low budget is Adikt, K9 ( altho, this is hard to source since out of production ) for high output MM and AT 33EV as a budget MC ( much prefer this over OC9 variants ) albeit I had to load it high to give it a kick. 

Cirkus upgrade is indeed nice, but I lived with a non Cirkus bearing with ARO for a while, and used a pretty costly carts.  My first *upgrade* actually was a phonostage when I was still running a Basik/Bask Plus and K9. All before the Cirkus. So it's a mullet but I was shocked that I could hear the improvements. 

 

Life without the Cirkus isn't the end of the world. I certainly enjoyed every minute of it.

 

It depends on what you are running downstream, but non Cirkus deck is a bit slower, a bit out of time and a bit noisier. That's all. As far as the difference between OC9 and DV20, you will hear the difference. 

 

Also keep in mind that a condition of non Cirkus bearing varies obviously. So make sure the thrust pad and bearing tip are in good condition. 

 

The *biggie* for me was the choice of the arm which made a bigger difference.

 

I hope you like the ARO.

Posted on: 12 October 2015 by bazz
Potential T/T upgrades aside, now you have an Aro it would be worthwhile to consider the Heed Zene (Benz Ace variant) along with your other candidates. 
 
I bought one unheard, purely on spec a few months ago to replace a worn Akiva. Budget doesn't run to the likes of Kandid these days, and if the Zene turned out to be no worse than mediocre I could put up with it for a while, as with others in the past. 
 
I still have trouble believing how good it is in my Cirkussed LP12, Aro, Armageddon, Superline, active SBL setup, and not just for the dough.
 
Long been a Linn cartridge man, right back to the Asak and Supex SD900 before it. Apart from a series of Linns I've had other MCs over the past 40 years; a couple of Ortofons, AT OC9II, DV 17D3, Benz Glider, Denon DL103 and, long ago, a beautiful silvery sounding Fidelity Research FR1 Mk3 in a Dynavector arm.
 
Most of those performed about as expected; variations on a theme of mid price MCs, passable but nothing special (except for the AT, jeez what an old nail!). Wish I still had the FR, I'd love to try it in the Aro.
 
But I digress. The Heed is special IMO, in fact I couldn't  nominate one area where it's inferior to the Akiva in my system. Rich, dynamic, detailed without harshness and enjoyable on any material. Perhaps slightly smaller scale, still debating that one with myself, but at the price who cares, it's a steal.
 
I'm also an instant fan of the Fritz Gyger FG-S stylus profile for low surface noise and inner groove tracking. 
 
Worth a look.
 

 

Posted on: 13 October 2015 by jon h

Aro plus XV1S on the metal Linn subchassis. All else (except for XV1T) is gaslight.