Some of you must have voted for Tony?

We don't vote for Prime Ministers in the general election, we vote for local Members of Parliament. The only people who ever voted for Blair were his local constituents who put him in as their MP. So far as becoming PM, that was determined because he was the leader of the party (an internal party vote) who won the election. I'm a Labour voter. I think Blair was one of the worst things that ever happened to the Labour Movement but was the best way into government in the late 90s. 

Given his success as a prime minister in the polls it is surprising how few people now claim to have voted for him.  In general, no doubt to universal disdain, I think he was an excellent leader of the labour party and a fine prime minister who overstayed his welcome by a couple of years.  He had enough about him to get labour elected which was no easy task at the time.  I doubt we will see labour elected for a very long time with the choice currently available and the influence of unions who still live in the 70s

What / who was the alternative in England at the time?

Mr I am still here, John Major?

The Conservatives never have been an alternative and still aren't.

Lost my respect when he supported the invasion of Iraq though. That war was unacceptable IMHO.

Not that I was ever eligible to vote but lived in London then.

Blair won his first two elections thanks to a combination of factors.  The tories were a dead duck, sleazed out to the max and even the tory press was sticking the boot in.  Murdoch's newspapers backed Blair (for a price) and that definitely helped him.

Also, Blair had the luxury of attracting disillusioned tory voters plus he managed to count on the traditional Labour voter who was still to come to terms with the fact that Labour had morphed into a tory party of sorts.  A couple of elections down the line and the traditional Labour voter was still voting Labour because they believed Gordon Brown would be a shoe in to number 10.

Up here in Scotland, the traditional Labour support has died on it's arse.  Labour used to be guaranteed big majorities in Scotland decade after decade but Tony Blair and the other 'modernisers' killed that stone dead.  The voters up here wanted a left of centre party, not another tory party.

You have to understand that the centre ground in the UK has shifted to the right over the past few decades since Thatcher.  Blair took Labour over there and his government was in some ways more right wing than Thatchers.

Traditional Labour voters never moved their beliefs to the right and they had the party rug pulled out from beneath their feet.

In Scotland the left of centre voter had a choice, the SNP.  In England, they have no choice other than to stay at home.

I'm finding the campaigning by the Blairites to be of the same underhand style of Tony Blair's time.

People like Yvette Cooper saying if you vote for Corbyn we'll never win power but if you have no principles other than seeing what way the wind is blowing, what's the point of having power?

Rather a party in opposition with principles than a party in power with none.

He didn't just support it, he manufactured evidence and rational for invading.  That for me over steps any mark and puts him on par with the world's war criminals.

I was a strong Blairite from before the time of the election of the first "New Labour" Government - and regretted that he handed over to Gordon Brown

Yes he moved the appeal of the party to the right and made it electable after the debacle of the Michael Foot years and (probably more regrettably) Neil Kinnock's unfortunate ability to grab defeat from the jaws of victory. With the first past the post system a broader appeal was necessary to wrestle power from the Tories despite how awful they were at the time. 

Personally I don't consider that an unelectable alternative is a real alternative - so would rather be part of an anti-Tory group than endure the further fracture of society that "full fat Tory" with a working majority will inevitably bring. 

I was surprised by the "success" of the SNP in seat terms, but I'm not convinced that its apparent appeal is a blueprint for a progressive left leaning party in the whole UK - and I would prefer to maintain the Union; and I am qualified to play international sport for Scotland. Despite the SNP intervention on fox hunting (for which I was grateful) I still see the SNP seats taken from Labour as practically benfitting the Tories as matters stand. 

Although it it is a double edged sword - unless UKIP (hopefully) implodes - I might have to pin my faith in proportional representation - but not the unfathomable nonsense that was offered in the "lip-service to the Lib Dems" referendum. 

........ but that might be a knee jerk reaction 

I voted for him the first time, well I voted for a labour candidate who was never going to win but I felt like I was voting for Blair. This is parlty why I hate him so much because I felt cheated. I was stupid enough to think he was new, principled, progressive. Two weeks into his premiership he cancelled plans to ban cigarette advertising a few days after receiving a £1million donation from Bernie Ecclestone. Game over.

Just a few reasons I detest him and his policies.

His covert privatisation of the NHS knocks much of what the Tories are doing into a cocked hat; he created internal markets with private providers cherry-picking juicy contracts to the detriment of core services. He ignored the medical profession. He also created vast target based systems ripe for gaming and perverse incentives and pyramids of bureaucrats that cost the NHS huge sums.

The PFI schemes that still bleed the NHS

His oleaginous Teflon Tony style, the archetype of modern politicians who fail to address questions. He surrounded himself with the Alistair Campbells of this world, briefing the media behind everyone's backs. Responsible ultimately for much disenchantment with modern politics.

His only aim was power. I saw no principles. Power, and the maintenance of it was the goal and the purpose. All political philosophy was changeable if it retained power. Populism not principles (behind so much of his NHS meddling).

As for Northern Ireland, yes I have no doubt he had a significant role but a great deal of groundwork was done by John Major (and also Mo Mowlam)

The Iraq war summed him up in many ways. He sucked up to Bush and I believe he will have been shown to have consciously manipulated evidence and argument to support his agenda. His wish was to set him himself on the world stage as a great statesman and hero. If the Chilcott enquiry is not utterly neutered I think he will be ripped to shreds by it.

He had/has no humility. An arrogant, self absorbed, grasping and probably duplicitous man, surrounded by sycophants and a cloak of religion that I find nauseating in the context of the atrocities meted out on Iraq,. He cannot even recognise his contribution to the creation of ISIS and then has the gall to be a 'Peace Adviser' in the Middle East-well until he was booted out recently.

I'd like to strap him to a chair and berate his gloating face for hour upon hour. I genuinely detest him like no politician I have ever had considered, and some of that is because for a brief moment I was fooled into thinking he might be different.

 There, I feel better now.

Bruce

........ so not as bad as Michael Gove then 

Gove appears pretty detestable, but he also seems consistent and, frankly, to not give a toss

Blair wanted everyone to love him and would wriggle and slide about to do whatever he could to maintain that. More odious in my book. I think it also made him a coward, unwilling to promote decisions that may actually be for the greater good if they might not be popular. Apart from killing hundred of thousands of people in Iraq of course.

Bruce

http://www.theguardian.com/pol.../12/tonyblair-labour

The f1 cigarette advertising issue. Public Health can rot for a few quid. Cover your tracks after the fact.

OK  - I would accept that it's a close call 

As a Labour supporter who believes the first priority for the Labour party should be to keep the Tories out, I still think he did a brilliant job. Of course the Iraq war was wrong but does anyone seriously believe that if he had said no then Bush would have said "OK , let's forget about it"? He did delay it for a short while but I agree he went too far in his support - though it's hard to engage in a war half heartedly.

I believe his big mistake was to underestimate the problems that the intervention would cause and overestimate the effect the British army would have on the situation (not saying the army didn't do their best).

Having said that, he has some excuse because of his successes in Northern Ireland, Kosovo, and Sierra Leone - strange that all his critics have forgotten about these....

I voted for the Labour party when it was led by Blair and while he has been demonised by Iraq (isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?) I think he and his government did many good things in this country. Remember the massive investment in schools and hospitals? 

And at risk of incurring the wrath of some on here, I'd also suggest that Iraq wasn't as black & white as many people would now like to present it.  Yes, the country is a mess and the West bears some responsibility for that but at the time of 9/11 I think Blair was absolutely right to ensure that the government and people of the USA knew that the UK would stand by their side in their moment of need and great hurt.  And when Saddam was boasting of his weapons (remember the gun?), invading Iran, and gassing his own people there was much wringing of hands but little action.  That tyrant had to go.

There. I suppose I better put the body armour on now.     

Chaps

The OP question was - did you vote for Blair.

I have been a life long Tory, in fact being a Tory is part of my DNA but I did vote Labour in 1997.

The Tory party was tearing itself apart over the EU and John Major seemed incapable of uniting the party and this contrasted with Nulab / Blair who under the direction of Peter Mandelson became more Tory than the Tories.

They were very pro business, they were indeed the party of aspiration and Blair did seem to have the potential for an international presence.

Therefore in a moment of madness, I voted Labour in that one and only election.

My shame is great.

Regards

Mick

Mick voted for Blair. Brave and totally surprising confession! Glad he took you in as well as me.

MDS

Respect for putting your head over the parapet over Iraq. I don't think hindsight caused a million to take to the streets, or Robin Cook to challenge Blair. I don't think hindsight made the war unjust, unjustifiable and disproportionate; these things were known and ignored, hidden or manipulated. We also knew Iraq was a basically unstable country of disparate tribes that would likely implode without Hussein or viable transitional arrangements. A true friend would not have 'stood by' Bush but would have counselled that the plan would result in greater terrorist threat for decades to come.

Two words also missing from any discussion on Iraq; oil and ego. They maybe explain we did precisely squit as millions died in Rwanda but stepped in to depose this particular tyrant like some globally appointed selective policeman

I guess these arguments are now old and little good will come of rehashing them. However my shame at the (literally) uncounted casualties in Iraq never fades.

bruce

He did the tories job for them, and more.  Just because it said Labour on the tin didn't make it Labour.  He accelerated the sell off of publicly owned assets.  He did what Thatcher wanted to do but was afraid to do and start the sell off of the NHS. He was more tory than the tories and Labour today are fighting to see if they'll stay tory or not.

I was a huge fan of John Smith and his politics and his death was the worst thing to happen to Labour.  My suspicion of Tony Blair and the people around him began before his election when his soundbite laden public statements sounded less like a political party and more like a soap powder advert.

New Labour -  New Britain.  Tough on crime - tough on the causes of crime.  Education, Education, Education.  That they're memorable is one thing.  That people fell for them so easily, is quite another thing.  It was presentation over substance.

"Tony Blair was more right wing than Thatcher - he absolutely was." Will Self.  There can be no such thing as a right wing Labour party.

Admitting you required hindsight to demonise Blair over the Iraq war is some statement!  Millions were more than aware before the first boots hit the ground.

I wasn't demonising Blair, Jota. I was simply observing that many have and while I agree that there were those who opposed action against Saddam's Iraq, I think an awful lot more have jumped on the bandwagon since.  I'm not one of them. 

There might be some delay ……… 

Chilcot realises he’s been enquiring into wrong Gulf War

I think the problem is that Blair can afford better lawyers than the UK Government.

What is the problem with Tony? As far as I can see, he is the best Labour PM that UK has ever had.

I am aware that he has dome a number of things that many consider as serious mistakes, but he did it in good faith based on faulty intelligent reports.

Should have gone to Specsavers then?

ISTR that Blair trained as a lawyer himself, and of course Cherie is a lawyer and no doubt you are right, he can afford better lawyers than the government are willing to hire. That's life.

If Hans Blix and the UN had pulled their bl**dy fingers out in the first place, none of us would have been in this pathetic mess.

As for Chilcot, I bet he's terrified of publishing anything that is remotely doubtful or challengable, because people like Blair will sue him. And rightly so.

Interesting thread SJB. You are dead right, Blair's legacy could have been solving the most intractable problem in post-war British politics - Northern Ireland - but instead it is now Iraq, and all the rancour that goes with it.

I vorted Labour in '97, as I had done in the previous three elections, but in 2001, 2005 and 2010 voted Green, because I was sickened by New Labour's control-freakery, its attempts to manipulate the press, the attachment to thoroughly illiberal measures like the introduction of ID cards, its slavish attachment to neo-liberal economic orthodoxy, its failure to tackle the devastation wreaked on the fabric of the country by 18 years to Tory misrule and incredibly stupid ideas like the PFIs. New Labour was a complete and utter disaster.

This year I voted Labour because I like my local MP Sadiq Khan - he is a very good and hard-working constituency MP, with at least a vestigial attachment to proper old-fashioned Labour values.