Vulcan XH558

Posted by: Mike-B on 29 August 2015

Its getting close to the end of its last flying season.  

If anyone is interested where its flying in the next weekends, search Vulcan in the Sky  & a very useful twitter can watched during flights.  They normally give location (flying over) & show a map of the scheduled flight path.

 https://twitter.com/XH558?ref_...serp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

The flight path to central south England is normally right over my house,  it looks like its doing so today, so hope to click some pics in about 40 minutes,  will post on the forum if OK 

 

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

The Vulcan is my favourite Cold War V Bomber ... The Handley Page Victor still gives me spooks with its sinister demonic looks.

i remember seeing the final  Vulcan Bomber display at RAF Finningley in1992 (now Robin Hood Airport ) and the spectacle of high speed turns and other acrobatics with the nose and fumes pouring out of the ( I believe) Rolls Royce Olympus engines was incredible.

 

http://youtu.be/xJZ0fmTUdWo

 

Simon

 

 

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Tony Lockhart
Acrobatics?

I bloody hope not!
Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

  Ahem... Aerobatics ... Wretched iPad... 

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Paper Plane

Petition

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/104358

 

steve 

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Tony Lockhart
As much as I like the Vulcan, it's time to let the old girl rest. Spares are becoming a huge problem, and the costs are going to spiral.
Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Huge

On her last flight this year, as well as a Lightning I'd like to see her accompanied by a MIG 21.

 

A fitting tribute to the fact that the these three magnificent aircraft never had to serve in combat against each other, and to the (relative) peace that we now enjoy.

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Tony Lockhart
I think there was greater peace before the Wall came down.....

You've zero chance of seeing a Lightning airborne any time soon. Anywhere.
Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Huge
Originally Posted by Tony Lockhart:
I think there was greater peace before the Wall came down.....

You've zero chance of seeing a Lightning airborne any time soon. Anywhere.

XS 452, a T.5 is still airworthy (but is in South Africa).

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by sheffieldgraham
Originally Posted by Huge:
Originally Posted by Tony Lockhart:
I think there was greater peace before the Wall came down.....

You've zero chance of seeing a Lightning airborne any time soon. Anywhere.

XS 452, a T.5 is still airworthy (but is in South Africa).

Could it be this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftt2q6zNQ1g

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Tony Lockhart
Ok. You've zero chance of seeing the Cape Town Lightning in European airspace. Not a great maintenance history down there.
Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Mike-B

The Cape Town Lightnings - operated by Thunder City - have been grounded since a fatal crash in 2009. The accident investigation concluded there was a shortfall with maintenance that caused the crash & blamed non-compliance with ejector seat maintenance as the cause of the pilot death.  Thunder City were contesting the report last time I spoke with one of their people.   The public flights were closed down in 2010 & the fleet of Lightnings, Buccaneers & Hunters was up for sale,  not sure what happened with that.   The last time I was in Cape Town,  nothing much was going on other than some restoration work, the facilities were not open to the public.

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Tony Lockhart
I think I read in the official crash report that Dave Stock couldn't even eject the canopy, so the ejection seat wouldn't have fired anyway. No mdc cord in the Lightning canopy, so that was that. He tried three times, then said his goodbyes.

Shell withdrew their sponsorship pretty quickly when they realised their cash wasn't being used wisely.
Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Huge

It would appear that they may be back up and running again as of 2014.

 

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Huge
Originally Posted by sheffieldgraham:
Originally Posted by Huge:
Originally Posted by Tony Lockhart:
I think there was greater peace before the Wall came down.....

You've zero chance of seeing a Lightning airborne any time soon. Anywhere.

XS 452, a T.5 is still airworthy (but is in South Africa).

Could it be this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftt2q6zNQ1g

Yep, ZU BBD is XS 452.

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Don Atkinson

The Vulcan 4

 

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by Huge

And the successor was seriously impressive, probably even more than the Vulcan - at least until the Labour government stupidly cancelled it.

Posted on: 30 August 2015 by PhilP

Was due to fly at our local airshow today (Little Gransden) but grounded because of bad weather.  Always the highlight of that show for me

 

The appearance money was reportedly £3,000 for that show.

Posted on: 31 August 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

And for me the other fascinating thing are the first generation nuclear bombs that the UK developed to be carried the V bombers including the Vulcan.. The first ever, I believe, was the UK gravity nuclear weapon of around 10 to 12 kT called Blue Danube, which was later replaced due to reliability and pre detonation risk issues with the around 15 kT Red Beard. I also understand that these bombs were designed to be dropped by the Vulcan flying at around 50,000 feet, and then later with Red Beard a new delivery method was developed called Toss Bombing where the Vulcan or other aircraft would fly below the detonation cloud height and release the bomb into a flying trajectory as the aircraft turned and flew away as quickly as possible before being hit by the shock wave.

Simon

Posted on: 31 August 2015 by Mike-B
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

.........   new delivery method was developed called Toss Bombing where the Vulcan or other aircraft would fly below the detonation cloud height and release the bomb into a flying trajectory as the aircraft turned and flew away as quickly as possible before being hit by the shock wave.

That was known as stand-off bombing. A high speed short distance lob & as effective as a chocolate ashtray for delivering a large capacity thermonuclear device .

The V bomber – any bomber for that matter – is a non-starter for delivering any form of nuclear device other than small tactical battlefield devices – that was the primary function of the Blackburn Buccaneer . Aside from the shock-wave, the real problem for V bombers was missile defence systems & they needed some means of deploying the bomb well out of missile range. The Avro cmpy developed a stand-off delivery system called Blue Steel that had a range of 200-250km.

The rapid advance of defence missile system ranges made the Blue Steel ineffective long before it went into service & a longer-range Blue Steel II was planned, but the decision went for the USA made Skybolt. That all fell by the wayside when it was finally realised that the V bomber idea was at best a 1 in 10 chance of getting to the targets & was nothing much more than a suicide mission for the crews. Despite this Blue Steel remained the primary British nuclear deterrent weapon until the Navy took delivery of the USA made submarine launched Polaris missiles.

Posted on: 31 August 2015 by Tony Lockhart
From my Buccaneer days.....

Toss-bombing is as described by Simon in Suffolk. Stand-off just means dropped or launched from a safe distance. A missile can be stand-off. I suppose toss-bombing is a form of stand-off.
Posted on: 31 August 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

I think I'm correct in thinking that the V Force bombers were developed in the days when the then thinking was that a war could be fought and won using relatively low yield nuclear devices...I also find it interesting that the only defences of the Vulcan were height, speed and electronic counter measures... I guess you can see why the V-force bombers relatively quickly gave way to ballistic missiles and were converted or reassigned to other duties.. Such as XH558 which I believe was marine reconnaissance..

Posted on: 31 August 2015 by Tony Lockhart

The Blackbird and U2 also had no defensive weapons. The Blackbird flew too high and too fast to be caught or hit. Weapons add huge weight.

Posted on: 31 August 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Talking of service to air missiles, near where I live was a station of bloodhound missiles. These were designed to attack the soviet equivalent of the v-force bombers. The Mk II were designed I believe for proximity detonation at 50,000 feet so a direct hit wasn't required to destroy incoming bombers or trajectory bombs.

The mkIII was to have had a nuclear proximity warhead ... where both the shock, EMP and emitted neutron flux was designed to destroy or make inert offensive nuclear warheads... I am not sure the mkIII ever came into service... perhaps Tony knows.. Or it may still be classified?

 

But I do remember the battery of bloodhounds all pointing out of their concrete pen looking really sinister with the horizontal and vertical radars rapidly oscillating.. And they were still operational into the late 80s early 90's. Now it is just an overgrown concrete pen thank goodness.

 

Simon

Posted on: 31 August 2015 by velofellow

It is hard to believe that the Blackbird first flew over 50 years ago. I read the biography of Ben Rich who was Kelly Johnson's no. two at the skunk works. The can do attitude of those guys is amazing.

BTW , I once saw a TR1 ( a U2 derivative )  leave Alconbury and go up like a homesick angel. The power to weight ratio on a low fuel load must have been interesting.

Posted on: 31 August 2015 by Tony Lockhart
I did see-in and see-off crew on a TR-1 at Leeming in about 1989! A very strange beasty it was too. I think it had a tech issue and diverted to us.

And yes, the take off was impressive.