The refugee crisis..

That refugee crisis, is better wording than immigrant crisis, for a start. 

Where do you start ? They shouldn't have been made to become refugees in the first place.

those parties who brought on this crisis should be the more accommodating.

That Crisis' rhymes with Isis' should be some help for Bono.

Its too big & complex to write it up in this forum.

I agree the previous comment about not being made refugees in the first place - a lot of Europe believe it all began with Bush & Blair starting the Iraq war; that destabilized the region & Syria in particular.

Less such blame seems to be apportioned with Afghanistan & the various African conflicts,  but drill down & the underlying extremist movements Jihadist, Taliban, Isis etc, does circle back on Iraq & the interference of the west in general & G.W.Bush in particular.  

Having seen the people at Calais I get the impression that with the vast majority being young single men that they are economic migrants & whilst feeling sorry for them & see nothing wrong with trying to better yourself, they are not refugees but simply illegal immigrants & I would ship them (specifically)  back to wherever they came from.

The huge numbers of people coming thru Italy Greece & transiting the Balkans & Hungary that is making the news headlines at the moment are mostly family groups & are fleeing from the hellhole that is Syria.  These are real refugees. 

Leaving aside what caused the refugee crisis in the first place for the people affected it is a tragedy.  The European governments and the EU institutions have been slow to react but Merkel's belated leadership is to be admired.  I must say I'm somewhat ashamed of the UK's government's response which seems to be knee jerk to the Press and then begrudging.  

 I'm not in total agreement with that.   Its my understanding that UK has spent more money on refugee camp funding in Syrian, Lebanon & Turkey than the rest of Europe put together. I've heard this from a number of news/press & also an Oxfam mngr who has been travelling back & forth in the region for a number of years.  If that is the case, I really don't understand why Cameron does not spell it out in cash & people numbers.  

As somebody who is helping to organise an awareness raising demonstration in York, Saturday 12th, 2.00 pm, St Helen's Square, (thanks Naim for the commercial), I have been staggered at the level of popular support for this.  It is also clear that apart from the most obdurate bar-room red-necks, people are aware of the considerable differences between the hapless Syrians and the aspiring economic migrants.  The sensitivity and balance of the discussion on this thread (so far) very much reflects what I have experienced in York myself.

Donuk  beautiful downtown York

Mike - it's not the spend on international aid that I'm talking about.  As you suggest, the UK's record on that at 2% of GDP compares well and better than most (though I think there's a bit of creative accounting in that, rather like the spend on defence which I believe 'counts' military pensions).  

Rather it's about the UK's comparatively poor response to accepting a decent share of the displaced Syrian refugees themselves.  If the Press are to believed the small print behind the PM recent announcement is that the headline number is spread over 5 years and even then the refugees only receive temporary residence rights.  I can't help but feel that the UK taxpayers' money being spent on international aid has a 'take the money, but we don't want the people' ring to it.  That might not be intended but I feel the UK government is missing the point here, though many unfortunate UK residents suffering the ever-tightening squeeze on social security payments will say 'what's new?' Sorry if that strays into politics.  I just think that this refugee crisis is so serious that the governments in Europe need to rise above their party politics and see the big picture.  Many thousands of their citizens seem to be able to do so.

Mike  

Mike,  I said I'm not in total agreement, meaning I agree some if not most of your points.

Bottom line first - yes I agree 20,000 Syrians allowed in over the life of this parliament is terrible. 

However I have issues squaring the compass on many aspects of immigration.  

UK's influx of EU immigrants:  >8 million in the last 10 years & that's not counting the children born to them in this country.   The UK is very badly overcrowded & England is taking the vast majority (90%) of immigrants. England has a population density of 410 people km/2 & is x2 as crowed as Germany & x3.5 France.  Its not acceptable in my politics to keep an open door free for all.  I am not advocating leaving EU,  but I do agree (in part) with those that want to change free circulation around EU. . 

Illegal immigrants:  The government (past & present) is very much to blame for the lax & inept control of illegal immigrants including overstayers. Add to that the NHS turning a blind eye on heath tourists & also free health care to illegals.

Syrian & Iraqi Refugees:  Yes I fully agree we should do more for genuine refugees,  however its all riding high on emotion at the moment & this needs management, not knee jerk,  & that is from a joint agreement of all EU countries & UN. And there are serious challenges with that, Denmark (for e.g.) has effectively closed its borders to immigration. 

All this leads me to my final point;  I have real concerns that the refugee word will change to immigrant & this country will get pushed further into the politics of UKIP,  & worse,  & that racial & sectarian problems will become a common problem in the future.

Yes we need to do something,  but lets do it with eyes wide open & not blindly or with them covered by the mist of emotion. 

Your arguments are well made, Mike.

Re population density, I'm sure you're right on the stats.  And on that score Australia should be doing a great deal more.  But I'd suggest other factors need to be weighed too, like wealth and infrastructure.  On the latter we most certainly have a housing shortage but successive governments can't legitimately blame net immigration for that. Governments have neglected their responsibilities for housing for too long.

Anyway, I think we're of a similar mind on your final point: EU membership and the UKIP agenda need to be kept out of this.

Mike       

I strongly believe veto's at the UN should be abolished and I'm surprised no one has mentioned the UN and Russia should be doing more.

Russia are doing plenty. Just not what you would like. This is becoming more and more like a proxy war.