network complexities
Posted by: Willard McCarty on 13 September 2015
Before I pose my question, let me describe in sufficient detail my setup.
At the front of my house I have a UnitiQute 2 on ethernet running through a switch to a BT router. (It drives a pair of PMC twenty.21s, but never mind.) Also on the network, hooked to the same switch, is a Drobo 5N, where all my music is stored. The Drobo runs Plex. Running from the BT router is ethernet to another switch, from it to the back of the house. Because wifi is feeble at best there, I have the ethernet cable plugged into a TP-Link AC1900 gigabit router configured as a wifi extender, with the same broadcast name as the BT but a different range of IP addresses. For wifi this works seamlessly; I can walk about the house without thinking about the transition from one router's wifi signal to another.
But here enters the problem. Hooked to the TP router is ethernet to my Mu-so. Using the Naim app on an iPad I can only get music to the Mu-so by setting the Uniti to Multiroom, which means having to turn off music from the Uniti to the PMCs every time. I'd like to control only the Mu-so when I am in that part of the house with the Naim app. In fact I can do this with a few apps that use Airplay directly from the Drobo, not using Plex, such as the WD TV Live app (via the WD TV Live box also connected to the ethernet next to the Uniti) or the RemoteFiles app. As far as I can tell the Naim app cannot deal with Airplay. It tells me "tracks not playing", though it does show all the music (using Plex).
Following advice on this Forum I acquired the Network Analyzer. It tells me from the vicinity of the Mu-so that the Quite, the Drobo and the Mu-so support BUP, the iPad SBP.
Any suggestions?
Many thanks.
WM
I have a similar setup (ISP router to switch, to Asus router in wifi access point mode; also a second Asus router in wifi bridge mode and Apple Express in wifi bridge mode - each connected by Ethernet to a Naim). All my devices see each other and play from all sources and are controlled from iPhone or iPad.
As far as I can see, the difference in our setups is related to the IP address segmentation. I am using the Asus on the same subnet as my ISP router, and only the ISP router is doing DHCP. I lose transparent wifi handoff - ie if I want to jump from the weak signal to the strong one at the other end of the house, I have to change wifi access points manually...so I have them using different SSID. I don't have any VOIP devices so this is not a big deal.
I'm a bit puzzled that multi-room works, but it sounds like your Muso is not on the same subnet as your Drobo. Perhaps checking the IP address ranges and subnet masks would give a clue as to next steps?
Regards alan
I have a similar setup (ISP router to switch, to Asus router in wifi access point mode; also a second Asus router in wifi bridge mode and Apple Express in wifi bridge mode - each connected by Ethernet to a Naim). All my devices see each other and play from all sources and are controlled from iPhone or iPad.
As far as I can see, the difference in our setups is related to the IP address segmentation. I am using the Asus on the same subnet as my ISP router, and only the ISP router is doing DHCP. I lose transparent wifi handoff - ie if I want to jump from the weak signal to the strong one at the other end of the house, I have to change wifi access points manually...so I have them using different SSID. I don't have any VOIP devices so this is not a big deal.
I'm a bit puzzled that multi-room works, but it sounds like your Muso is not on the same subnet as your Drobo. Perhaps checking the IP address ranges and subnet masks would give a clue as to next steps?
Regards alan
When you say the TP Link is using a different set of IP addresses, what do you mean?
Is the Ethernet cable going into the TP Link WAN port or one of the LAN ports?
If you temporarily move the Erhernet coming from the first switch out from the TP Link and go directly into the Muso (losing your extended wifi for test purposes), can you play everything that way? (Note you may need to walk back to the front of your house to get wifi on your iPad to try controlling things.)
Just a few ideas to isolate and identify your problem.
Regards alan
Hard to follow exactly - but it look like perhaps from your description your iPad is not seeing UPnP multicast.
Anyway - it is best to ensure you have a switch or a a group of switches as the centre of your network. Connect your BT router to this switch (s) and let this router do ALL the DHCP. Also connect your wifi accesspoint to this switch - the TP router? Ensure that this router is NOT assigning its own addresses, and ensure it obtains its address, and the wifi connections from the BT router DHCP.
In doing this you have set a single subnet with a single gateway router - a key thing for successful working.
If your iPad still seems problematic with Naim app, then replace TP device with an Apple Wifi Airport Express access point - these are designed to work with multimedia applications on the wifi.
I think Garyi means turn off DHCP (not upnp) on the TP-Link router which you have configured as a Wifi access point.
i also agree with what Simon said earlier about connecting everything using one or more unmanaged switches (like the Netgear GS105) and have just one cable going back to the BT router with all the DHCP for everything done there.
These two things should fix your problem.
best
David
Sorry yes DHCP too many acronyms does not help!
Thanks to all for the suggestions to date. A few reconfigurations reveal that the problem, whatever its cause, is not trivial. To cut a long story short, I detached and turned off the wifi-extender router, unplugged ethernet from the Mu-so, rebooted it and got it to connect via the distant wifi from the BT router, though the signal-strength was reported poor. Operating the iPad from near the BT router encountered exactly the same problem: "No track playing".
I then reconnected everything as before and can now again operate the Mu-so from my iPad using the Remote Files app. So, unless someone can provide a reason to rejig the setup, I will give up on the Naim app.
Intriguing problem, however. Perhaps of interest to Naim?
Yours,
WM
I wonder if the present issue is related to the weak wifi. What happens if you move your mu-so to be near your BT router too?
Thanks to all for the suggestions to date. A few reconfigurations reveal that the problem, whatever its cause, is not trivial. To cut a long story short, I detached and turned off the wifi-extender router, unplugged ethernet from the Mu-so, rebooted it and got it to connect via the distant wifi from the BT router, though the signal-strength was reported poor. Operating the iPad from near the BT router encountered exactly the same problem: "No track playing".
Sounds like good progress William. Any way you can just go Ethernet straight from your main router to the muso (switching off and removing the wifi extender router agai, and probably re-using the cables)? Then, walking back to your main router to get strong wifi for your iPad, see how that looks? Sorry if my earlier suggestion was unclear - this is what I had in mind.
regards alan
Thanks to all for the suggestions to date. A few reconfigurations reveal that the problem, whatever its cause, is not trivial. To cut a long story short, I detached and turned off the wifi-extender router, unplugged ethernet from the Mu-so, rebooted it and got it to connect via the distant wifi from the BT router, though the signal-strength was reported poor. Operating the iPad from near the BT router encountered exactly the same problem: "No track playing".
Sounds like good progress William. Any way you can just go Ethernet straight from your main router to the muso (switching off and removing the wifi extender router agai, and probably re-using the cables)? Then, walking back to your main router to get strong wifi for your iPad, see how that looks? Sorry if my earlier suggestion was unclear - this is what I had in mind.
regards alan
1) connect only switch 1 into your BT router. Drobo, qute and other ethernet devices at this end of the house should be connected to switch 1
2) connect switch 2 at the other end of house to switch 1, any ports
3) connect muso to switch 2
Power all up starting with the router and go down the chain to the muso. It may take a few mins to propagate all IP assignments across the network.
4) test the muso, controlling from your iPad via the BT router WiFi.
If this works OK, you can then connect your TP link router to switch 2. As others have said, it should be in bridge mode with DHCP off so that network addresses remain controlled by BT router.
"Track not playing" or something like that is what you normally see when Upnp is selected but there is nothing in the play queue. It's a bit difficult to follow where you have got to in your testing but following the line of thinking that Alan is suggesting, this is what I would I do if it were me.
i would turn off multi-room in the Uniti and then turn off the Uniti so all you have on the network is your mu-so and your music store, with both connected (by Ethernet preferably) back to the BT router. Then I would use the naim app to select the mu-so in rooms, then select Upnp and then select an album and select the first track, which should add all the tracks to the queue and start playing the first one. As the naim app works ok with your Uniti looking at your music store, it really should be fine with the mu-so looking at your music store too.
If this doesn't work then I would try resetting the mu-so to manufacturer's settings. You could also reset the App or re-start the App (double click home button and swipe upwards on the naim app, then single click the home button and select the naim App via its icon again). We see almost no examples of the naim app not working with mu-so on the forum, so this has to be solvable.
Sorry if some or all of this is teaching you how to suck eggs, but I don't know what you know, so to speak!
best
David
I also agree with DC71's suggestions, but if it were me I would keep the network simple to start with, but I do agree that if you have a switch handy then it is worth connecting the music store and the mu-so to that and connect that back to the router.
Same rule for connecting the switches together if either of them have a mixture of gbit and Mbit ports.
My thanks to David Hendon and DC71! Since the network stretches from front to back of this Victorian house and the cables run mostly under the polished floorboards, running a new cable anywhere isn't terribly appealing. And I'd prefer not to have to buy another switch on the chance putting it between the Mu-so (from the back of the house) and the Drobo (at the front) would do the trick. I tried David's suggestion, of turning off Multiroom, then the Uniti, but the app still reported "track not playing". Remaining is a factory reset of the Mu-so, which I may try if I have time. But meanwhile, since I do have a workaround, I think the wisest course is to let be, at least for now -- with many thanks, again, to everyone who has chimed in.
The kit is very fine, both the Uniti and the Mu-so. I'd never say otherwise. I don't mind sucking eggs -- in technical matters such as networking, very seldom, actually.
All the best.
WM
There was a simple way forward suggested early on this thread. Has that been tried? This really isn't diffivult if you use the correct components for the task..
Simon