Unitilite + Linn Keilidh

Thanks for the reply,

I don't have anything on hand, apart from that old Nait 3 amp I could grab from my brother.

I can try it out and see if it helps.

The funny thing is the Nait 3 is rated 30W, while the Unitilite is 50W, so on paper the Lite should have more muscle...

I suspect that is indeed the case, however it's very hard to audition speakers where I live, very few options available for testing, and finding a pair to match the Unitilite will not be easy...

Here in Valhalla we have 3 pairs of Keilidhs.

1 pair (1987) driven by NAD 3120, 3m Linn K20 (rm = 14'x10')

1 pair (1984) driven by Rega Brio (mk1), 3.5m NACA 5 (rm = 20'x18')

1 pair (1999) driven by NAC 32.5. HiCap NAP180, 9m NACA 5 rm=(24' x 14')

All sound fab. A good solid wall and close positioning to it enhance the bass. They will go close, up to about 2". But bring them out a bit, toe them in and you get astoundingly clear midrange with firm, deep bass. Do you have the Kustone bases?

Thanks for all the replies,

My Keilidhs are the earliest revision, with the first mesh tweeter version, however I can get the latest replacement tweeters for around 100 GBP here.

The Kustones is a different story, I don't have them and there is nowhere to get them where I live, the same for the Aktive mod.

I am sure a good power amp should take things up a notch, but still, the Unitilite  rated 50watts should be able to drive them fairly, so perhaps they are not a good match (although I understand Keilidhs and Naim usually are).

One other question - 

I read a lot about the unitilite and Neat Motive 2 floor standers being a very good match.

I can get the newer sx2 here for little under 1000 GBP, but they have none to audition.

Anyone has any input about these as a match? I know the Keilidhs at the time were considered a level up, but time has passed since... will I be dissapointed?

It's not so much the output power of an amp that matters but how well it provides current when the load (speaker) impedance becomes complex.  The UnitiLite is OK but far from the best when driving complex speakers, however, it won't be damaged, but it might not sound as good as it can.

I have a slightly different view...

I think that speaker design at the cheaper end of the market has been quite astonishing, but one you get above about £1500, the progress has been much slower.  This has resulted in a compression of the quality gradient and that has contributed to cheaper (relatively speaking at least) newer models outperforming older more costly designs.

Huge, I tend to agree, and in discrete electronics I think much of the development in the 20 years or so has been in component materials, quality and construction, as opposed to major new component topology types. But the benefits I suggest are tangible none the less.. and by extension such benefits must equally apply to loudspeakers as well.

i also think advances in affordable CAD, test and simulation software must have really helped the industry for all types of audio devices including loudspeakers.

Simon

I must say this discussion was very helpful for me in this matter, so thank you all for your inputs!

What all are you are saying really strenghtens my initial feeling, that while the Unitilite can handle the Keilidhs on paper, it doesn't excel, and results are far below what the speaker can do, especially after hearing him with the old Nait 3.

To get it to shine I probably need a power amp, update the tweeters (the early mesh version I have are very harsh compared to todays speakers) and preferably find a pair of Kustones, which I am not sure I can find.

I like the Unitilite very much, but it has it's limits, and considering all that, perhaps replacing the speakers with modern easy to drive pair might be a better route for now, like the Neat Motive SX2.
The only problem is, I have nowhere to audition them where I live, and will have to but the blind (or deaf in this case...)

Anyone have experience with this combo?

One more thing - this is probably not possible, but can if I put my hands on that old Nait 3, is it possible to bypass the pre-amp stage and use it as power amp only?

Unfortunately it's worse than that...

Many more expensive speakers are designed with more capable amps in mind, so they often have complex impedance curves.  When used with less capable amplifiers, this puts a load on the amplifier that it wasn't designed to drive well, so the amp actually performs less well than it would with simpler speakers.

This is why, sometimes, using more expensive and 'better' speakers on a simple amplifier can really sound worse than when using simpler and less capable speakers.  It's not just a matter of revealing the lower quality of the amp - the 'better' speakers actually make the amp perform worse as well as revealing it.

Nait 3 is rather unique in that aspect. I had a 3 & 3R driving Celestion 600si in a small den (relatively lower volume usage). These are 82db/W/m & 8 ohms nom. clearly an inefficient design. A Nait 2 can hardly get any meaningful bass out of them. I have now switched to a Unitiqute due to its multiple functionality. Naim rates it the same power as the 3/3R/Nap 90. However I immediately noticed the loss of bass power you mention. Luckily the Qute has a 'loudness' function which compensated nicely for that in my setup. The Qute also sounds a little smoother which matches better with their copper domes.

In this case it may not be just a question of rated power or power supply capacity. I did try some big well regarded amps with them, but liked them with Nait 3/3R a lot - they just matched (within volume limits of course).

Becks,

You ask if anyone has used a UL with Neat Motive SX2, I have and was very pleased with how they performed. I've added the odd comment on earlier posts. Since then I've had a touch of upgraditis and now have the SX2s connected to a Super Uniti. Even happier with the sound I'm now getting. My thanks to Hungry Halibut for the steer to SU. 

Might be worthwhile seeing if a dealer in your area will get some SX2s in for audition purposes. Failing that perhaps you know someone nearby who has SX2s and will let you take your UL to them to audition.

DWO

Hi Gav,

Sorry for the late reply, was ill the entire past week,

I am quite amazed by what you are saying... especially about the bass.

Do you use the Kustone Bases with the Keilidhs?

What revision is your tweeters? the mesh type or the ceramic ones?

Perhaps there is something wrong with mine...

Just bought a fourth pair of Keilidhs for the middle speakers in a 7.1 Arcam based AV system. mesh tweeters (circa 1994) but excellent value.

Regarding Huge's comments about bettering Keilidhs, a few years ago I looked for a modern alternative. Only the Ovator S400s and B&W diamond 840 came close in the sub £5k bracket.

Btw: previous post should have been 1994 and 1997 not the 80s!

'Twas not I !

I rarely say this but I am fairly envious. It sounds like a truly weird setup but no doubt it does the biz for movies. The Keilidhs have serious bottom end too when driven right so you probably don't even need a sub.

If I can find a second hand pair of end-spec Keilidhs or Kabers in this region, I will definitely be trying to put together an aktiv system based on UQ2, HC, SNAXO3, NAP100x3 for the second home.

'Twas not I !'

Huge, t'was thee I paraphrased:

I have a slightly different view...

I think that speaker design at the cheaper end of the market has been quite astonishing, but one you get above about £1500, the progress has been muchslower.  This has resulted in a compression of the quality gradient and that has contributed to cheaper (relatively speaking at least) newer models outperforming older more costly designs.

Keilidhs implied? My guilty inference!

My point? I concur with your findings: took £5k+ of speaker to make a significant difference, hence my post. 

Touché!