SL2s revisited

I'd really miss the 'soundstage' as you put it HH. It's one (of many) aspects of listening I really enjoy.  When I had S600's I found them a bit 'flat' and it disengaged me from the performance a bit.

G

They really do look good in your room too.  So SL2s need a solid wall and not a partition?

Nice post, as always or nearly always, HH.

Just to pick up on your 23s. I had a pair in my lounge over the weekend to see if they suited it more than my current 24s. I was suprised at how different and the same they sounded. The 23s mid bass was bouncier, more musical but vocals in particular were less clear. Both had the PMC house sound and in the end I decided I couldn't live with the 23s smaller character so have decided to upgrade the sofa instead and thereby change the layout of the room to better suit the 24s.

Some hobby this.

ATB Ray

SL2s do seem to need a solid wall.  However, I have heard that they can work OK with a very solidly made partition, so nothing flimsy or hollow, and best reinforced with 2 or three layers of thick plasterboard.

Funny thing about the impression of depth reproduction in speakers is that I find SL2s can do it just as well as others but you need them positioned with a bay between them.  Of course, it could be argued that the whole depth thing is an illusion of sorts that doesn't accurately mimic what we hear in reality. It could be argued that what impression of depth the SL2s (and other close to wall speakers) gives is perhaps closer to reality.  Whatever the arguments, depth can be most alluring, particularly on many of the great classical recordings of the golden era.

As an aside, it's a shame that close to wall siting is no longer widely offered by speaker makers.  One speaker that I remember from my school days Stateside that seems to be so simple yet worked so well when sited hard up against the wall was the Allison CD6.  Very fond memories of that one, and a very good looking speaker too.  I always keep my eye open for a pair but they are sadly quite rare in the UK. Those I have found were all in terribly unloved condition.

When Naim first demo'd the HDX at a roadshow I heard a pair of SL2s driven by 552/500 using either HDX/555PS or CD555. Apart from the timing, tonal accuracy and amazingly life like communication, something which did strike me and Helen was their ability to place instruments and performers within a 3D sound stage. Maybe not as deep and wide as some, but realistic enough. They were not backed right up against the brick wall they stood in front of. I expect that how and what they communicate will depend on a lot of things, both absolute and relative, but I wouldn't say they can't do good imaging and depth A fascinating speaker in many ways. 

I agree it's a great shame you can't buy speakers that are designed to work close to a wall. I assume it's too much of a challenge to get them to work in this position.

My SL2s weren't ideally positioned, with one hard against a brick wall, the other standing about 70cm away on the other side. They still worked extremely well though :-

I went from SBLs to SL2s when I found an absolutely mint maple pair on Ebay three years ago and I love them. I play mainly classical and after an evening with them I come away thinking I have been to a concert. They are incredibly involving, with a silky smoothness at the top end which is delightful. Like the SBLs, they need a careful bit of setting up and positioning and an occasional check on the tightness of the bolts, but other than that they are a joy. I have not heard any speaker I've enjoyed more. I've just added SL interconnects and speaker leads to my system which have been settling in for a week, so tonight I'll be having a long listen to see what they bring to the SL2's performance.

SL2's are good but the flat soundstage doesn't work for me. I guess that's the compromise for having a boundary speaker. Unfortunately in this country the design and size of the average room precludes the use of large standalone speakers which was why I used SBL's for many years until moving to a larger property.

They look excellent in your room Nigel. 

Nigel - congratulations on your "new" speakers.

Depth reproduction is neither here nor there for me. Richard sums it up well. I was always happy with the impression of depth that my SBLs, Credos, et al, gave me. That said, live performances on my Kefs are breathtaking.

Glad you are enjoying your speakers.

A 300 would fill that empty space on you rack nicely 

As Richard comments; it's irksome that few of us have the space to entertain and optimally site free-space loudspeakers. One would have thought with the average home and listening room, not being large, there would be a good selection of boundary-placement designs available, but it is not the case.

SL2's, like their predecessors, the SBL's will apparently make music very nicely from modest Naim amplification. My SBL's are sounding delightful being driven by a Nait XS Mk2 as I type this post.

The soundstage can be a bit two-dimensional as you say Nigel, but everything else is just so right and musically engaging.

I agree with Richard that SL2's can work satisfactorily on a substantial partition wall. My SL2's used to work thus. The builder thought I was potty, insisting on a plasterboard/partition wall being stuffed with acoustic insulation material, but it worked a treat.

John.

I have had very good results with SL-2s on 'just' a CDX2/Supernait. They're easy to drive and more forgiving than you'd expect.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Nigel, next stop NAC552?May address stereo depth issue...and works a treat with SL2s as you no doubt know... yes then of course you will need seperate streamer -- ooops!

But i know this is an evil suggestion -- and i will now bow and exit stage left before you throw something at me. 

enjoy...

ken

Do you recall the distance they stood from the wall?  

In in my SL2 setup I usually have them 7-8" from the (sturdy plasterboard) back wall and supplement with a sub, because initially when I moved my system to the new room they didn't work to my liking hard up against the back wall.

The other evening I experimented and pushed them hard up against the wall.  I found I could turn the sub off.  Result that bass was decent but there was a loss of deep bass and soundstage depth.  

At at this point I'm not sure which I prefer.  The next step may be to try them as a free space speaker with the sub on.....=8)

They were about a metre out from the wall, about a metre from each side wall and a good two and a half to three metres apart, toed in maybe 15 degrees. I remember being able to “see behind” the upright bass on Lou’s Walk On The Wild Side and the illusion that I could walk behind the sax player during the sax break.  Most of what we listened to had some sort of 3D image. That which did not tend to, I assumed was recorded that way. We and others commented on the imaging of the SL2 and the reply from the dealer was that the SL2 could do it convincingly if set up to do so, which was in turn dependent on positioning, room, what they are driven with, and all the usual variables.

We never got to listen to a pair in our lounge.  We may have got the “wall of sound”, maybe not. We’ll never know. My point is that while they may not readily tend to Round Earth holographic illusion (thank goodness) they can do good height, width and depth – in the right room. Could be a 552 or 500 thing. I don’t know.

We loved them yet felt that they wouldn’t work in the long term at home. That may have been exploded if we were looking for new speakers but our memorable afternoon with the SL2 fell in a long period during which we were not considering a speaker change. Like the CDS3, for us their window has passed and like the CDS3 they will be remembered as some of the best stuff we never owned. When the time for new speakers eventually came round, we went straight for Ovators (600 at dealer, 400 at dealer and at home) in the hope we could buy into some of that SL2 magic. This did not turn out to be the case - in our case. Rooms can be difficult.

The reason for my rather flippant comment above is that yesterday, my dealer threw a complete curve-ball at me in the form of a 272 > 300. To my ears, it blew the 272/XPS/250 out of the water - and still only 3 boxes! I know, it's an enormous mullet, and it shouldn't work, but it did.

Hi Nigel,

Congratulation for your return on a proper Naim chain.

Mine have proven to be really good and easy to drive even with Nait XS/HC, apparently easier than Sats,

but with the arrival of the CD555 and especially the 250 they really shine now.

About sound stage my impression is that some days are better than others probably for mains quality.

However the addition of Powerline on the HC-DR was really really noticeable on this aspect & the rest.

Richard,

What do you mean for "bay between them" ?

Regards

Roberto

If SL2s are anything like the SBLs we had at the Naim dealer I used to work for, you'd be too involved to notice the lack of soundstage.  I heard a LP12/Ittock, 72 + six pack with SBLs playing Tchaik 4, Mavrinsky conducting the Leningrad.  28 years later, I can almost still hear it. 

I'm guessing a 'Bay Window'. I have the PMC .23 either side of our bay and it creates a great sense of depth, separation and so on.  Not at the expense of sheer musicality I would add.

I don't see why you can't have 'both and'.

G

Let's see 'em, N!  

Roberto,

apologies, as Graeme says, by "bay" I mean a bay window or similar recess.