Mac mini/ raspberry pi / various nas's - what's the best?

I'm in this position at the moment too. 

For my own and likely unique reasons, my ideal would be running Asset on a Mac Mini - but funds are tight at the moment. The benefit would be that I can easily run a cloud based back up service on the mac mini, backing up the music contained on it offsite etc.

However, because I can't quite afford it at the moment, I've got a raspberrypi. I haven't tried setting it up to run asset with a USB drive containing all my music yet - trying it tomorrow. 

I say this as someone who's thus far tried:

A Seagate NAS - rejected because the uPNP software wasn't configurable enough.

A micro windows PC running Asset - rejected because for some reason, it would stop serving music on a nightly basis, requiring a restart. 

But what about sound quality?

To the OP,

This actually gets discussed quite a lot, such as the recent thread below:-

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-a-struggling-newbie

The UPnP options fall broadly into 2 camps; using your computer as a server or using a NAS (running a server app eg Asset).  The NAS option arguably has some advantages, but the computer option is the easiest to get up & running quickly without new kit.

Either way, you are recommended to use an ethernet wired solution through a network switch (rather than wi-fi or your ISP-freebie router).

Out of curiosity, how are you currently connecting your computer and NDS ?  If by SPDIF co-ax, don't you need a USB>SPDIF converter ?

PS  In this generalised summary I'd tend to include Mac Minis etc under 'computers' although the difference is that folks usually run them dedicated to audio.  Raspberries etc are harder to classify -  maybe they are just something else / another option  ;-)

Simplest solution is a Synology NAS running the Synology Media Server application that comes with it and SQ isn't compromised significantly.

I believe S-i-S gets best results with a Raspberry Pi, but it does take some work installing all and configuring the software bits needed to make it wurk as a UPnP media server.

QNAP NASs also work well, but by default use Twonky, so most people replace the Media Server with Asset or Minim - again more config work to do to get these working (and turn off the default Media Servers)

Macminis also work well, but again require additional software and are much more expensive than the NAS solutions.  They can also be more difficult to integrate into a PC based network, unless you already know how (but go into a Mac based network easily)

Fanless Micro PC have the same issue of requiring additional software.

(@Andy, the restart shouldn't be required - its a config issue: possibly a DHCP conflict, but it could also be due to other causes).

.........  err ?? .... Huge,   since when has UPnP media server programs affected SQ - compromised or significantly or otherwise ?? 

Mike, full quote was

"Simplest solution is a Synology NAS running the Synology Media Server application that comes with it and SQ isn't compromised significantly."

The effect is mostly from the hardware & OS.  As S-i-S pointed out, the Ethernet stack on a UPnP server can affect the amount of work the streamer NIC has to do, and thus can have a knock on consequence for power supply noise and/or RFI in the streamer.

The effect is very minor though ("SQ isn't compromised significantly").  Some other options may have slightly more effect, particularly generic PCs or Macs that are designed to be capable of being network controllers, hence have more chatty network stack software.

Hi Huge, my remark was a little  ...  ...  tongue in cheek.  

The way I read it is that with the Synology Media Server the SQ isn't compromised significantly - meaning its compromised, but not significantly.  Uh-oh!  I thought,  is this going down the UPnP media server SQ variations again ??? I thought we had put that myth back in its box.

But seriously,  I accept minor variations in SQ with hardware

Get a QNAP nas and run MinimServer or Asset on it.  Or get a Synology nas and run MinimServer on it.  Done

Really.

Of if you want the simplicity of an all-in-one solution, with no 'messing around' with the nas servers or a computer for ripping . . . get a UnitiServe.  But to back it up you'll still want a nas.  So you might just get a nas per my first suggestion, above.  And get an external usb drive to back up the nas.

We all have our limits, and for me hearing SQ variations from different UPnP servers is beyond mine.

Get a QNAP nas and run MinimServer or Asset on it.  Or get a Synology nas and run MinimServer on it.  Done

 

Really.

 

Of if you want the simplicity of an all-in-one solution, with no 'messing around' with the nas servers or a computer for ripping . . . get a UnitiServe.  But to back it up you'll still want a nas.  So you might just get a nas per my first suggestion, above.  And get an external usb drive to back up the nas.

 

 

I've decided I agree with you, and this is before I even attempt to configure a RaspberryPi. 

So I've ordered a single bay QNAP, and a 2TB drive. Like you said, It'll run Asset, and I can back up on a USB drive. Perfect. 

Me too Bart,  but I'm pretty sure it's because their isn't any. 

+1,

(However I accept that hardware / OS has the capability to cause variances, even though I haven't heard it myself; so I'm not even sure of that, but I certainly don't rule it out).

I've tried a couple of NAS devices with Twonky, and currently settled on a Mac-mini with my ND5xs.  The Twonky server routinely loses its mind and needs to be reset so I finally gave up on them.  The Asset server on the Mac-mini is more stable, but it's almost as bad I terms of its organization of music.

if you want to listen mostly to classical music, the databases really don't help much.  I haven't found one that will routinely organize things by type/piece/composer/conductor, so I resort to manually putting them in folders and then using the folder view.  Asset sometimes then messes up the track order, but at least it doesn't order the tracks alphabetically like Twonky does in folder view.

Of course the ND5SX routinely loses contact with the iPad app and has to be reset.  One of these days I'll try to manually set its IP address out of the range of the DHCP randomized, maybe that will help.

The Synology Media Server seems quite stable (I've not known it loose it's mind), but sometimes it does take the Android app a little time to find it again through my wireless router (same issue with finding the ND5 XS).  The PC on the wired network finds both instantly though, so I think it's my router that's the problem.

It's also very simple to configure.

Indeed, temporarily disappearing  UPnP media servers, and iPads that loose contact occasionally with streamer's using the Naim app is not typically about IP addresses and DHCP.  Here instead we are usually talking about the UPnP discovery methods updating their tables within the mentioned applications. They do this by using a specific type of multicast (broadcast)  network data. If the home network is loosing data, or the protocol stacks in the application are loosing data for what ever reason or not responding correctly, then devices will temporarily disappear.

The 'stay connected' option in the Naim might improve things a little if your network / mobile device is unstable ..

However I find the best solution is to use a simple consumer type switch connecting devices and use a media friendly wifi access point like an AiportExreme/Express connected to the switch and use a dedicated seperate SSID for media use.. (This might help Huge above). You should find reliability massively increases if you currently have issues with data loss on your LAN or wifi.

Simon

Yes, that's exactly what I have - a wired system through a switch with an AirPort Extreme for the iPads. I suppose its the upnp system that messes up.

reading the Roon web site, they clearly have contempt for the upnp system, but as far as I can tell the NAIM unit won't work any other way from a media server (other than via USB or TOSLink which have their own issues).  Are there any plans to allow direct integration between the NAIM and the Roon system, or do I have to use a dedicated PC with its own DAC?

I've been having difficulty with the app on the tablet not finding either the ND5 XS or my Media server.  After some experimentation, I've tracked the problem to the firewall in my broadband router restricting multicast (and broadcast) traffic across Wi-Fi.

After adjustments to the firewall rules it's much more reliable.  I don't think UPnP is necessarily the problem itself, rather that the default implementation of some of the more complex network devices that filter packets often leaves something to be desired for home networking.

Simon, I already use a switch, and this sorted out connection from the ND5 to the NAS using it's own inbuilt control point (via the IR remote control).  My problem was specific to the tablet which is why I investigated my wireless broadband router.  Using a separate WAP would have been the next thing to try.

Huge, its worth a try, a straightforward bridged wifi access point that is designed for multimedia apps is a good place to get to for reliability.

Simon

I've had a few problems with my UQ2 losing connection to the network. Using a BT HomeHub 5 as my router, I've had the UQ2 connected by both a wired power line adaptor and its own wifi - both were a little unreliable. 

I've since taken to using an old Airport Express unit I had lying around. I've got it set up to extend my existing wifi network, and I just have the UQ2 plugged into it via ethernet. It's been rock solid since.

Tonight, I'm going to give placing a NAS in this mix - i.e., I've got a QNAP NAS and a network switch arriving in the post today, and I figure I can just put the UQ2 and the NAS on the switch, and plug it into the Airport Express. Hopefully it'll work!

Andy - it should work well

Goodluck

Simon

It was really easy...

So my set up, for anyone who's interested, is:

UQ2 and QNAP NAS wired into a switch, which is connected to an Airport Express unit that is bridged to my BT Home Hub 5 router.

Set up for the NAS was relatively quick, and installation of Asset was super simple. If anything, the only complicated part was that the interface for Asset config is completely different to on a desktop, but it wasn't too long before I figured out how to sort out my folder prefs.

It's slightly slower to respond than when I had Asset running on my macbook - not sure what's to blame for that, but it's definitely acceptable.

Hi Simon,

No need for a WiFi bridge at present, with a bit of experimenting, it looks as though the current set of rules I've got in my WiFi broadband router work sufficiently well.

On re-activating the Naim app (Android) it discovers both ND5 and NAS within 3 seconds typical, 5 max.  It seems that the Naim app triggers the discovery process every time it's popped to the foreground on Android.

Macmini + roon SW = heaven....probably the best digital source one can buy now.

roon can add local music (stored on the internal mac's hd) or NAS music in their organization folder.

If I had to start to build up a digital frontend again,  this would be my first choice.

Ralf

edit: roon SW can be controlled via ipad