Following a fairly lengthy dem session at my dealers, I thought I'd post my findings, as there were a couple of surprises, and the kit has been the subject of quite a bit of discussion here on the forum of late. My request was to find the best possible streaming system, with a maximum of 3 full size boxes. This was all done through Kudos X2s, as that's what I have, and started with a quick listen to a Superuniti, which is what I'll be moving on from....eventually.
Before the 272 came along, I had set my sights on an NDX, so I was keen to see which option was the best. Given all the positive comments on the forum, I was thinking that the 272/250 would win the day, and it certainly didn't disappoint, but then I had a listen to an NDX/Supernait, and although it lacked a little of the 250 muscle, on balance, I thought it was more musical and enjojable. I guess that's 'source first' for you; after all, the NDX costs a tad more and has no preamp.
We also tried the 272/XPS/250, and this was a very clear step up from the bare 272. But then we went back to the NDX and put a 202/200 on it, and for me, this was a clear winner. The extra muscle of the 250 was still evident, but the X2s are not too hard to drive, and the 200 was clearly up to the task. So there we have it, for me the NDX/202/200 won the day.
Until.......my dealer then put the cat among the pigeons, by playing the 272 through a NAP300. Well, what can I say! The 300 took the little X2s by the scruff of the neck and forced them to deliver the goods, and now the 272/XPS/250 was definitely off the shopping list. The 272/300 had a more upfront, forceful presentation than anything else we had listened to, but mullet or not, it was a great sounding setup.
So. Round 2 will involve another listen to the 272/300, this time with the 300 turned on the day before so that it's warmed up. Then another shootout, this time against an NDX/282/200. Besides, what happens if I decide I want to squeeze another (little) box in there somewhere................?
Posted on: 09 October 2015 by hilz
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:
Given that the 272 is no longer plugged into the mains, everything has to be powered by the XPS. It cannot be otherwise.
I tried it this week with a chord sarum tuned super array power cord feeding the XPS-DR and nearly fell off my chair the jump in performance was that great..... Absolutely stunning!
hilz
Posted on: 09 October 2015 by Jason
Originally Posted by Mike-B:
I would have thought any streamer front end comparative testing needs a common denominator, and whatever power amp is on the end is irrelivatnt provided its the same for each test & into the same speakers.
The one issue as I see it is the 272 has an integeral pre-amp & that is one aspect of the common denominator of a front end comparason that makes it impossible.
The best that can be done is to believe Naim & their estimate that 272 pre-amp is around the 282 level. Therefore if comparing 272 with NDX, the NDX needs to be paired with a 282.
The thing to avoid getting into the discussions about the 282 not being a good partner for power amp X vs Y & 252 is its natural partner, that is loosing the point - as will be adding (or not) a XPS - its just over complicating the objective 272 vs NDX/282
My guestimate is the NDX/282 will be the best SQ, the problem is the SQ per £-$-€
+1.
I know a lot are very taken by the 272, but I found it some way behind an HDX (no power supply) into 282. I guess it shows we all hear different. I think most would rate the NDX a little better than the HDX in sound quality terms too, so I would expect to prefer the NDX 282. Sound per pound, well I guess that's another matter!
Posted on: 09 October 2015 by ChrisSU
Originally Posted by Igor Švab:
Originally Posted by ChrisSU:
Anyway, there's no going back now. I have a shiny new 200DR warming up on the rack, hooked up to my Superuniti for the time being. Sorry 272, it was lovely to meet you, but I'm not going to take you home!
What about the sound of SU vs SU+200DR vs 272+200DR? Can you try?
For me the 4.3 FW made a big positive difference in the sound. I believe that when first 272's came out they were fitted with the new FW. For SU it was not available.
BR
After 24 hours of warm-up, the SU/200DR is sounding like a very nice improvement on the bare SU. Music is easier to follow, with more space around individual instruments, and bass is slightly more extended. Hopefully, the 200 will improve further as it 'burns in,' but it sounds pretty good already. Can't comment on the 272/200, as I only listened to the 272 with a 250, but I don't doubt that it will be another step up from the SU.
Posted on: 09 October 2015 by ChrisSU
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:
Nah, you don't want no manky old NDX and 282, you want cutting edge new gear, you want this....
£6k speakers with a 272 front end, now that's what I call a real mullet! I don't doubt for a moment that it's a very fine sounding mullet, though. Also, I'm slightly jealous of the fact that you don't have to have a NAPSC hidden away somewhere, or a load of unused inputs and outputs on a preamp - but my ears told me that the NDX/282 was the best sounding option, so what I've decided on.
Posted on: 09 October 2015 by Stu22
I think most of you are actually in denial. You really want to reduce box count and have a neater audio solution in your homes but by making up/ commenting on such threads, there you have it, justification for hanging on to the old ways 
Is the 272 a 'mullet', cant commnet on that as it seems such a ridculous statement/comparison or whatever it is to make. Its a fine product as are all the other products mentioned. What purpose do these comparison's serve? Surely they are all just different products that cater for dfferent customer requirements. All seems very sensible to me.
For all you 'box builders' out there, you have my ulimate respect. Me, I'm more than happy with my lot. 3 boxes of joy and a set of speakers.
Have a good everyone.
Stu.
Posted on: 10 October 2015 by Innocent Bystander
Originally Posted by ChrisSU:
Nah, you don't want no manky old NDX and 282, you want cutting edge new gear, you want this....£6k speakers with a 272 front end, now that's what I call a real mullet! I don't doubt for a moment that it's a very fine sounding mullet, though. Also, I'm slightly jealous of the fact that you don't have to have a NAPSC hidden away somewhere, or a load of unused inputs and outputs on a preamp - but my ears told me that the NDX/282 was the best sounding option, so what I've decided on.
And that observation is promoting a common misconception about system balance...
Ignoring received 'wisdom', but instead simply thinking terms of getting a sound that any given individual finds satisfying, speakers have the single most subjective effect. At any given price point you can listen to a range of different speakers and there will very noticeable differences in the overall character of the sound - not subtly different as is the case with amps, CD players and streamers etc (each at any given price point). This means that in seeking a sound that is pleasurable to them, someone with, say, £10k to spend, or equivalent buying power secondhand, may very well find they get the sound they like by spending £6k or more on speakers, with the remainder split between amplification and source, and might not be able to find something as satisfying spending only half that on the speakers an double on source.
Yes, you only get out what you put in, but overall character is also crucial, and for any given individual the best balance of detail etc against sound character may be obtained ignoring what has become almost ritualistic dictat about balance of system.
So £6k speakers with a 272 do not necessarily a mullet make (though as I haven't heard either the 272 or those speakers I can't comment on how I would find the sound).
By the way, mullet are nice fish to eat!
Posted on: 10 October 2015 by hungryhalibut
I think Chris was having a little joke at my expense, so I wouldn't take his comments too seriously. I'm a great believer in source first, and when I first got the 272 I was using PMC 23s, which is perhaps more of a balanced setup. The SL2s were an opportunistic purchase, as I never expected to find any. I bought them from Cymbiosis, who assured me that the 272/250DR was up to the task. Perhaps a bare 272 is borderline mullet, but with the XPS in place the sound has really moved up a gear. When I had SL2s previously I used them with a CDS3, 552 and 300 and the sound was truly great. But with the 272, XPS DR and 250 DR it's not actually that far off what I remember from before, though I'm sure an objective comparison of the two systems would reveal something of a chasm.
Now that I'm really starting to hear what a 272 can do (notwithstanding that a 555PS DR would extract even more, and that there is a lot more improvement to come) I'm more convinced than ever that it's a groundbreaking product for Naim. The 250 DR is a stunning power amp and with the XPS added to the 272 it's remarkable what can be achieved from three boxes. I reckon it's probably the most effective way of spending £10k in the current Naim range.
Posted on: 10 October 2015 by Dan43
Thanks HH this is all good to hear. Following all 272/250DR threads has been very helpful, and I am downsizing from NDS too (due to work new house etc) so it will be fun to see if the 272 holds up compared to that NDS set up.
Keeping that in mind and a little bit early but has SL come into the equation as yet. My thinking is a 272/250DR but with SL upgrade (not the XPSDR), which I will test very soon once I settle on my speaker choice.
I demoed SL and HCDR on NDS and found that the SL upgrade was better than a second 555DR for that system, what would SL bring to a 272/250DR set up I wonder.
Posted on: 10 October 2015 by ChrisSU
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:
I think Chris was having a little joke at my expense, so I wouldn't take his comments too seriously. I'm a great believer in source first, and when I first got the 272 I was using PMC 23s, which is perhaps more of a balanced setup. The SL2s were an opportunistic purchase, as I never expected to find any. I bought them from Cymbiosis, who assured me that the 272/250DR was up to the task. Perhaps a bare 272 is borderline mullet, but with the XPS in place the sound has really moved up a gear. When I had SL2s previously I used them with a CDS3, 552 and 300 and the sound was truly great. But with the 272, XPS DR and 250 DR it's not actually that far off what I remember from before, though I'm sure an objective comparison of the two systems would reveal something of a chasm.
Now that I'm really starting to hear what a 272 can do (notwithstanding that a 555PS DR would extract even more, and that there is a lot more improvement to come) I'm more convinced than ever that it's a groundbreaking product for Naim. The 250 DR is a stunning power amp and with the XPS added to the 272 it's remarkable what can be achieved from three boxes. I reckon it's probably the most effective way of spending £10k in the current Naim range.
Indeed, my use of the term mullet was never intended to be taken too seriously. I could have chosen a more sensible thread title, such as 'Best 10k / 3 box Naim system.' As I've said, the NDX/282/200 was the clear winner for me, but if I hadn't heard it, I would have been very happy to have chosen a 272/XPS/250.
Posted on: 10 October 2015 by ChrisSU
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
I might be a little biased, but I do think the NDX was a cracking breakthrough product for Naim, it really set the standard and architecture for the others to follow. Yes the NDS does exceed it.. But the NDX is not light years behind in absolute SQ, and in terms of musical enjoyment a lot closer. I also feel the NDX, like CDX2 sound really good native into the top quality Naim preamps.
Simon
When I started down the digital audio route, I would never have thought that adding extra bits and pieces into the chain could do anything but degrade the sound, but now I've done exactly that. Adding a streamer between computer and DAC on the digital side; and on the analogue side, the most expensive component in my new setup will be a preamp packed full of inputs and outputs I don't need. Strange, but if it sounds good, I don't care!
