Super Lumina for 'Classic' System?

Hi ChrisH, you are luckier than me as you can lean the well run in SL cables for audition before placing order, anyhow, great to hear that they are also worked and improved in your system, more details/3D/real.

I'm not sure about the concept of spending more on the speaker leads than the speakers themselves - it sounds a bit weird to me. I'm sure the improvement is well worthwhile, but it just seems, somehow, wrong. 

My opinion: expensive cables are nothing more than the cherry on top of an allready great (e.g. adapted to your taste) sounding set. I would make the XPSdr for the NDX priority nr 1.

I can't help but think that you might have been better to try another cable to see if you could attain more value for money in the context of your system. I remember reading another forum member stating that they felt, for example that Tellurium Q Black speaker cables offered around 70-75% the performance of Super Lumina which as a result freed up money to spend elsewhere on their set up. Each to their own though!

Chris, the owner of Voodoo Cable in the US advised me the upgrade path should go as follows : Power Cords first, these are the foundations of the house so to speak, 1st I/C - source to amp, 2nd I/C - amp to speakers, these are the least important.An XPS will most certainly improve the sound, however quality power cords will help. S/L cables are quite expensive for your system, maybe a DAC like Hugo would really help improve the digital sound a lot. Chord Chorus2 would be the way I'd go with your system, and keep the NACA5. Get a DAC, That'll  really rock you.

A bit a difficult one in the scenario you present. The question for me is what a source upgrade will do for you in comparison to the SL cables. The cables are anyhow a great improvement, but the question is of course what would bring your right now more value on the short run.

intuitively I would say the SL cables are bringing perhaps more value you for you than the XPS, but it would be interesting for you to test it, to be sure. As the better the source the more also SL cables can shine.

Chris -  I'm sure te SLs are great wires - indeed I've enjoyed the demo myself -  BUT the improvement is nothing compared with adding a XPS(DR) to your NDX - you'll wonder why you didn't do it years ago.

I have no doubt your system responded amazingly to the new cables.  However, it would have been very illuminating to compare the XPS DR upgrade vs the cable upgrade as they are quite similar in price.  

I would add an XPSDR first to the system.

Then HICAPDR to SN2 and after these upgrades

would consider the cables.

Chris - your experience of introducing SL cables to your Classic system is similar to mine.  I was quite stunned at the scale of the performance improvement that the interconnect and speaker cable gave.  Yes, they are expensive, particularly when compared to the cost of the Classic range, but I felt the benefit they delivered was well worth the price.

I've since added a SL DIN/XLR which has brought further benefits so you might comfort yourself with the thought that since you have a SN, you have a Super Lumina 'full loom' already. Job done! 

Mike   

+1 TQ Black, one of the best upgrades I've ever made although I'm sure the SL is better for a lot lot more money

Thanks for all your comments guys, interesting read.

What Im taking from this is that XPS DR is going to bring a lot more to the party when Im ready.

I have no doubt that this would be a really good move.

Mrs H backs me with all the changes I make, but the line will be drawn if a change leads to the system 'overpowering' the room. 

Ill just have to do a good selling job when that time comes....!

In a similar way Im sure my speakers are becoming the weak point in my system (as Im already fully Powerlined), and the fact that the new SL wires cost more than the speakers also doesnt sit quite right with me.

2 things make it OK for me:

1) the big improvement the SL cabling makes to my system

2) my Motives are low height, small footprint. Going full height & maybe increasing the footprint is going to change the dynamic of the room and I think bigger speakers will not look right in the context of our room. 

It would be nice to have a dedicated listening room with no compromises, but thats not the case for most of us.

And different wires is also something that I considered as a cheaper alternative. I did try TQ Black before I changed to NAC A5 but they didnt do it for me. I found NAC A5 better, controversial I know!

In the end I knew that SLs would work in the context of my system and I dont have the time to trial a bunch of different options. The implication of that is of course £££, but I would rather get on and enjoy the music than faffing around.

I like the all Naim solution, seems to make sense to me.

The order was placed a week ago, so my mind was already made up.

Maybe it did come across as if I was looking for justification, it wasnt my intention.

I just wanted to offer a different perspective of the reasoning behind an upgrade to SL cables, which will hopefully help others thinking about their options in the future.

Have a great weekend, enjoy the music.

Chris

Keep us posted Chris after the cables have arrived - I for one am considering adding an SL interconnect (& Powerline) between my NDX and Nac-52 but can't wholly justify even to myself the £s (not in absolute but relative terms compared to a used PS such as XPS2)

Chris,

I had NDX/282/SupercapDR/250DR when I home demoed the SL speaker cable. I was demoing the 250 DR at the same time but had already listened to, and decided on, this before the SL cable went in. If found the improvement the SL speaker cable brings very similar to how you have described it. I put the NACA5 back in to check and I observed a return to a thickening I would describe it as. Now before anyone gets upset I have used and loved NACA5 for many years and loved it - the SL cable, although expensive, is simply better in all the ways you have described. I already use a Chord Sarum Tuned Aray IC so the cumulative effect you referred to was already apparent to me even though my IC is Chord and not the SL.

Whether or not you would find more VFM in going for the XPSDR for the NDX first I can't say. My NDX was bare when I tried the SL speaker cable and I was very impressed. I was lucky in that I could get away with 3m lengths of the SL speaker cable and I got this cable at an exdem price. You have also made it very clear that you do not want to add more black boxes (yet!). My take is that SL speaker cables are capable of delivering the kind of improvement a black box upgrade can bring.

At least you took the time and trouble to conduct a home demo of the SL speaker cable and I suspect some of the naysayers don't have the benefit of a home demo to form their opinion.

Now, no buyers remorse, just enjoy the improvement this rather special speaker cable has brought to your litening pleasure! 

We all seem to hear and listen differently to some extent and Super Lumina cabling made me wonder about a parallel perception with vinyl replay. Some 'get it' and some do not. There is also the psychological barrier of 'seemingly daft money for wires' to surmount.

I am fortunate to have enjoyed lengthy sessions of music via a friend's Statement pre-amp on two occasions. I remember my initial comment after the first track I heard via the S1 pre (following a small interlude of stunned silence) - "It's almost unimpressive".

And so it is (I think) with SL cabling. Rather than obviously adding anything, it removes layers of hash from the music, making it sound more organic. It's subtle or fundamental, depending upon one's perception.

To these ears the DNA of the Statement amps is (logically) audible in SL cabling, and to some extent, gives one a taste of the magnificent monochrome monoliths at more affordable prices.

And don't forget the 'pull back' on those 4mm plugs at both ends folks.

John.

I could home demo them and i have to say that the trial was more than excpected. They fit the Naim philosophy, definitely. I was affraid, if you start with SL cables, you should put them everywhere to get the right balance again like with the powerlines (i was happy only once it was one everywhere).

The only "downside" i found on the SL is that it feel a bit "slower", on the other hand, it is just because the music simply flow. It is a great upgrade for sure. Now, the price tag is really high and i find them really pricey. If they were cheaper, much more peple were going to take them.

Worth a try only if you can afford them great piece of kit

Thanks for the comments nigelb & Ikoun., its good to hear someone elses confirmation too, even if it is what I deep down wanted to hear!

J.N., I have seen the previous post about the 'pull back' tweak, and that is very much in my mind for when I get my new cables, thanks for sharing this again.

I hope to get them in 2 or 3 weeks, so I will post back once I have them, Overprint.

As I mentioned in the first post, the IC change on its own didnt blow my socks off.

It seemed to be the addition of the speaker cable perhaps giving the cumulative effect that made the real difference in my system.

Get a home dem of a well run in specimen and see what you think in your system maybe?

I would definitely recommend Powerline if you havent gone down that route already, and the outlay is also easier to justify than the SL IC!

The SL speaker cable is the thing that makes it all breath and open-out dynamically. All the other cables then make a lot of sense once you have these in place.

It does seem to be working backwards from 'source first' concepts on upgrades, but I think it just shows how limiting the NAC A5 is; all the other SL cables run into a real block if the speaker cable is not up to the job.

NAC A5 was a good cost-effective cable for the earlier range of cables but really does not like the SL new cables upstream of it; in particular the DIN-XLR SL cable can have a rather 'lumpy' bass into NAC A5 in some systems, like it did in mine.

DB.

Funny you should say this but I had a similar experience with NACA5 and Sarum Super Aray DIN to XLR between the 282 (SupercapDR) and the 250DR. It sounded plain wrong when I demoed this cable at home with the NACA5. I realise you are talking about the SL version of this cable with the NACA5 but I suspect the principle is the same - the NACA5 has become the 'blockage' to these very transparent IC cables. I also suspect that there is a bit of synergy going on between the SL cables (originally designed for the Statement kit) and the new DR power amps as they benefit from trickle-down technology from the Statement (well at least the new transistors anyway). Just a theory though.

One thing that crossed my mind is the compatibility of the SL speaker cable with older Naim speakers such as SBLs and SL2s, which need to be near the wall. With the cables sticking out from the speaker terminals, just how close to the wall can you get without the cables touching the wall? The metal airplugs don't look that bendy. 

They are not really suited to the SL2 Nigel, i tried them at home and instead of the normal 5cm gap i presently have, it was more like 10-12cm with the SL.

You are right the black plugs on the SL speaker cables are not at all bendy. These plugs together with the receiving sockets on the back of the speaker protrude about 2.5 ins (sorry I am an old git and am still imperial). I suspect you will need a total of 3ins behind the speakers to allow a bend in the cables. My jump leads however protrude even further behind the speakers but I presume you don't need these with your speakers.