NDS with Synology NAS...Can I stream my WAV files properly?

You need the files in FLAC to see the metadata. If you still have the HDX, do it on that before you sell it, then ditch the WAVs on the new NAS and transfer them again. The Synology NAS running Minimserver can transcode back to WAV on the fly for playback on the NDS - some people prefer this, so best to listen and decide for yourself. 

There was an old thread that sounded like it might discuss the same problem,  taking a HDX created file in WAV & getting it to play & display correctly on a NAS (Synology Media Server, Minimserver, Assett etc)..     It was if I recall something to do with tagging, I've tried a search but can't find it  .......  maybe one of the posters/experts on that thread will come in and help.

But whatever,  WAV on NDS (or any network player) from a Synology (or any other NAS) wth Minimserver (or any other UPnP server) is NOT clunky. Like I said I recall it being a tagging issue that your NDS & NAS are missing with HDX created files.     

And I am sure someone will tell you WAV doesn't do whatever in metadata - that is absolutely not correct,   I (& many other forum'ites) use WAV.  I can see all the metadata & edit with dBpoweramp & AudioShell,  never had a single problem.  

Yeah, it's all related to tagging.  You can tag the wav files . . . which will be a relatively arduous process (depending on how many you have and your patience for such) or you can let the HDX convert them to flac in which case they will be tagged and ready to go.

Mike, you might have been thinking of this....

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/minimserver-1

I think HH has successfully done exactly the same, starting with a Unitiserve rather than an HDX, but the process will be the same.

Been there, done that. The trick is to get the HDX to convert all the files to FLAC, then back up to the Synology. If you simply use a backup of the HDX ripped WAV files (which is what it sounds like you are doing at the moment) you will have massive metadata issues. This is because of the way the HDX carries the metadata. It's only HDX and UnitiServe rips that do this - if you download WAV files and put them on the Synology they will stream fine. 

Once the FLAC files are on the Synology, set it to transcode in Minim. The Synology music server will not transcode to WAV and go gapless playback, but Minim will. 

I found that FLAC files transcoded to WAV played using Minim on the Synology sound better than playing from the UnitiServe, which was somewhat surprising. 

Let's hope you still have that NDX....

Thks Chris that looks like one of the threads I had in mind.  the other thread I think was Bruce Woodhouse requesting help.   .........  & I see the venerable HH has now joined in.

You'er in good hands Jason

Great, thank you all.

I had the luxury of keeping the HDX for a week before I take it in for the part exchange.  What I have done so far I s back up the WAV files to the NAS and I will keep these as WAV.  This is what I have been playing the NDS from so far.  I will now convert all the files on the HDX to FLAC and then I can create a new store and "move" the FLAC rips from the internal drive on the HDX to the store on the NAS.  I can then use these files as the main files to stream.  I shall still keep the original WAV files as well, in a separate folder and back up just in case.  It may be that once the FLAC files are set to transcode to WAV, I hear no difference, in which case...great.  But if I still prefer the original WAV, I shall explore the tagging issues then.

Many thanks, to all again and I shall have a read of the linked thread.

All the best,

Jason

Chris,

I've just tasked the HDX with the conversion to FLAC.......6 days it reckons!  Still, at least it will do it all without me needing to do anything else.  I will miss it when it goes, it does many things very well and until the NDS, nothing has convinced me enough to change it.

When I did the conversion on my Serve it took about three days to do 2,000 albums. You will probably find the a few get missed - I had about 10 albums that didn't convert and they ended up as separate tracks. I sorted out the metadata using dbpoweramp and it was then all fine. I'm sure you will find that transcoded FLAC sounds no different to native WAV - I certainly can't tell the difference. But transcoded WAV definitely sounds better than native FLAC. A nice thing about the FLAC files is that they take up less space. 

I'll keep an eye out for a few stray albums then, thanks HH.  Well, if the transcoded FLAC does the job as well as true WAV, then I'll be a happy bunny.

No. Not remotely. WAV wins.

Purely my personal, subjective conclusion, same as everybody else.

WAVs hold metadata just fine, it's just that the HDX doesn't tag them. It uses a propitiatory external file.

When we moved our HDX on I had to put proper tags in the entire ripped collection. I used dBpoweramp and it was easy. It just took time. Having bought many downloads over the years I already had the tools to convert format (always WAV for me), strip out tags (an exasperatingly frequent necessity but easy to do) and add tags (easy, including with WAV).

Before doing a batch convert to FLAC I would do some A-Bs comparing form\ts. If you can't hear a difference, FALC is the path of most convenience.

Ok, thanks Harry.  Whatever happens, I shall be keeping WAV and FLAC versions of my Naim Rips As storage isn't an issue.  I did wonder if transcoded FLAC could do the job as well, but I won't know until my files have been converted....the HDX is doing this as I speak.

If like you I find the transcoded FLAC doesn't do the job, I shall have a go at tagging the metadata on the WAV files using dB power amp and see how that goes!

It is easy but will be time consuming to tag your WAVs. You may not need to.

Being a bit retentive, I welcomed the opportunity to put the tags in exactly as I wanted them to be presented. I should probably get out more. There are plenty of opportunities to do batch tagging which helps somewhat.

I do revisit the format comparison area from time to time. WAVs still do it best for us. It probably depends on a lot of variables.

Agree all the above, especially the retentive part rings a familiarity bell.  To give an idea of what can be involved,  Mrs Mike recently requested Barbara Streisand "Partners"  its a nice typical Streisand offering with each track sung with a partner,  Billy Joel, Michel Buble etc., but the album app art display showed only BS as the artist on each track,  no partner names & very annoying.  I edited the WAV tags to show the partner names,  it took all of 10 minutes including finding a listing of who they were.  

Following on from Mike's follow on, I would add that downloads and some rips come with odd tags. Particularly downloads. I use dBpoweramp to clean out all this muck. I don't edit the tags. The file converter part of the app incorporates a tag stripper. Sometimes you need a strong weed killer to get rid of some of the silly little tags that labels put in which can bugger up how the artist/album/track is indexed and displayed. Deleting them using the usual tag editor doesn't always work. They come back. Damned if I know why, but the strip out method always works. This is with WAVs. I don't ATM use other formats for anything.

All different server and playback programs have different tagging mechanism, that's why they can be incompatible when metadata being displayed is concerned especially for wav files. I am using minimserver and I just ignore all taggings and adopt a MS Windows-type of filing hierachy to organise my collection, with no album art (actually that can be a way to achieve a better SQ, reducing the number of operations). That may compromise a bit of SQ (because the files can be four or five layers of folders away from the root) and the ease of use for locating a file especially for non-users of my system. But that's MY SYSTEM!

After all, it's a matter of preference and personal decision.

Seems extreme but whatever works for the individual.

I run Asset and Minimserver side by side with, I suppose, an average number of tags and album artwork for everything. 

That's something I see as an advantage for streaming. There are a multitude of ways of setting stuff up exactly as we want it configured/organised. Or left to default will often do just fine. Of course, this pre supposes that pound for pound, a streamer beats a CDP for musical enjoyment, which is the case for my ears. If there was no sonic advantage at a given price point there would be no streamer in our main lounge posh system.

I don't think having a file in a sub directory will have any affect on sound quality. You might have tracks several layers down but they won't be stored in that nomenclature on the HDD.  Should this actually affect the sound quality in some systems, the beautify of tagging is that if you wanted to, you could have your entire collection of tracks from every album you own sittings in one folder. If every track was tagged correctly with album, artist, track, number and cover art, they would all lay out correctly in the correct order under Artist/Album/Track list when indexed by a server.

Ok, so I've now converted all my files to FLAC and currently have WAV and FLAC copies of all my rips.  I've set the FLAC to be transcoded to WAV by the server but through my system, the original WAV files sound very preferable to the transcoded FLAC.  

So I have decided I shall undertake the re-tagging of the WAV files so that the NDS can read all the metadata correctly.  It seems it reads track names and albums ok, but the artist info is not recognised; so it's part way there!  I don't currently have dbPoweramp, but I understand this to be the program to use for ripping and tagging.  Is dB Poweramp still best to use to access already created files to adjust the metadata?  If so, I shall download it.  If not, does anyone recommend a more suitable program for sorting metadata on already ripped files?

Thanks

Jason

I use it as my go to editing program,  I can't speak for any other except AudioShell - a simple open source prog that does the easy stuff. 

Glad to hear you have it all working OK, & also you agree with my opinion that straight WAV to WAV replay is your preference.

It is a very good tag editor, I hesitate to use words like "best" but it is right up there. I've tried most of them down the years.

Thanks Mike.  I know that often these differences can be system dependent and also it can come down to personal taste, but I certainly agree with you.  Straight WAV does magical things above and beyond transcoded FLAC to my ears.....and by no small margin for me.  Certainly enough for me to spend some painstaking time sorting the WAV tags!

dbPoweraamp it is then, many thanks.

Jason

Great, another recommendation then, thanks Harry.  I knew it seemed to be the 'go to' software for ripping, but wasn't sure if it included functionality for editing already stored rips. 

I'll download it this weekend....and so the fun starts.......!

Sorry Wat, I missed your post.  Thanks for the info on Metadatics, I'll keep that in mind.  Things seem to be going well so far with dbPoweramp, but if things change, I'll give it a look.

All the best,

Jason.

Since Jason's concern seems to be resolved, at the risk of semi-hijacking his thread I have a related question.

As I've mentioned, I'm within inches of buying an NDS/555PS/UnitiServe SSD/SynologyNAS drive. Jason's question really caught my attention because I plan to rip all of my CDs with the US in WAV format. I understand that the metadata is appended to the WAV file as a "sidecar" in the Naim world, but I thought the whole point was that this works seamlessly. I also thought the general (I thought) preference for WAV is that even though FLAC is lossless, it is still compressed, and the decompression on playback can result in some data "interpretation", i.e. potentially inferior sound, vs. WAV files, which avoid this decompression. Am I missing something, or is there something different about Jason's NDX rips and use of the NAS with onboard software as his server vs. what mine will be with the US?

Thank you. If this is too far afield, please let me know and I will start a new thread.