NDS with Synology NAS...Can I stream my WAV files properly?

Hi Drummer, metadata in WAV files is stored in the two ways, the formal standardised way using XML constucts in a List Info data format, and also increasingly the unofficial consumer oriented way using ID3 tags in a data construct. Because of the nature of WAV files both types be validly encoded.

Naim appears to not parse these data contracts and so IME does not read either of the WAV metadata constructs.

Naim appears to use its own database for storing ripped CD metadata when stored as WAV for its UPnP servers.

The UPnP server itself does not send the file to the streamer - its deconstructs the file and sends the various parts of the file - like headers, sample data, metadata, image file, as separate components in the UPnP media server protocol. Therefore to render metadata from a WAV file when streaming the key thing is that the UPnP media server can parse the original WAV file.

Unitiserve - doesn't parse the file as discussed - but creates a separate database at rip time. As discussed the only apparent way of bonding the metadata to the file directly in the Naim world is to transcode to  the FLAC format.

Asset and MinimServer for example parse the WAV metadata and build their database directly from the WAV files them selves - which perhaps is ultimately more flexible.

As far as FLAC vs WAV with sample data - the decoded and extracted PCM data is identical... but the streamer uses a different algorithm to extract the audio samples. Some say this produces a sonic signature with Naim. I agree... and so I prefer the Naim un compressed PCM decode algorithms for WAV files..

By getting the UPnP server to extract  the WAV and FLAC data and send as PCM for the Naim streamer to my ears provides the best results. Of course by using the media server to transcode - this becomes very easy to trial and error without having to re rip files etc

Simon

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Very interesting and informative reading Simon, as your posts tend to be..!

I'm working on a possible plan to use both WAV tagging approaches – i.e Naim's database method as well as LIST/ID3 standards – on the same WAV files as ripped by a UnitiServe/NS01 etc...though I'm yet to be 100% sure this is possible....

I recently demoed a UnitiServe, as I'm interested in re-ripping the CD collection I have and then with a view to moving forward with HD downloads having a standalone audio specific 'home' for my music. Yes, I'm computer savvy enough to know full well I can do this away from Naim with my Macs/ripping software/Network shares and NAS's etc etc, but I'm ideally keen on keeping my entire audio chain Naim throughout, for whatever reason that seems to be sticking in my head......I liked the US, the rips it generated, the ease of it all etc (though the album art it would often bring in was crap, but no biggy to change myself etc)....However, my reservations quickly emerged around the issues of Metadata Tagging and Naim's UPnP server limitations, to the point of it being a possible deal breaker for me....

Naim's UPnP server implementation seems to totally ignore/not use anything but the main top level tags (i.e Artist, Album, Track Title, Genre)...the main omission for me being Album Artist. It's fine and happy if a ripped album is 'single' artist and all is straight forward – the US bringing lots of extended metadata/credits from AMG etc (though this is only seen in nServe and in a slightly different form when looking at the Rovi look-up on the App), but NONE of it is used in the actual main tags when displayed on the streamer/control point. The problem? I have many albums that contain and credit 'Feature' artists, which I like to see when playing etc (I figure if the main artist/record company has credited the featured artist, then it should be there)....An Album Artist tag is the usual way to handle this, the overall album being correctly titled as by the main artist but individual tracks show the specific Artist tag etc. No problem in iTunes, have been doing it for years.....Not so in Naim UPnP server land. It's one artist name – or a Various Artists title – for everything, everywhere. No options. I dread to think how classical music aficionados deal with this!

Over the days I had the US, I increasingly became frustrated with the restrictive and simplistic nature of the server's handling of tags, particularly the display of at the control point. As a experiment, and prompted from an earlier post of Simon's I saw on here, I downloaded MinimServer and pointed it at a test folder of a few albums – some copies of the US WAV ripped folders and some my existing from iTunes rips etc. I used dBpoweramp to double check the tags. As Naim ripper users will know, the WAV files from the US/HDX/NS01 contain no embedded tags, so with dBp I populated the main fields using LIST and ID3 methods, including an Album Artist tag where appropriate. I then compared what was seen on the control point (Naim App) between the same files served via Minim and the Naim server.....

Ironically, it seems the Naim App is capable of displaying much more than the Naim server seems prepared to send to it..! Within 1/2 hr of tinkering with MinimServer, not only was I getting a display result on my iPad that I was far more satisfied with (and in my view far surpassed the Naim server results) but I was also discovering the immense customisation possibilities that it seems to offer – choices on index items, how folders/items are displayed on the App, what sub folders there are etc etc...even basics such as ordering Artist albums by date (ascending or descending, take your pick).....NONE of this is possible, let alone optional, via the Naim server.....Which is really frustrating! I briefly tried Asset too, as I know it's equally recommended, but I didn't really like the feel of it so much...it also seems to do weird things with tags (i.e sends Performer for Artist tag) and the resulting display results largely seemed to mimic the US....

Here's a couple of examples: (all files/folders are the same, with embedded tags via dBp, Naim App)

A Daft Punk album (deliberately chosen for the multiple track artists) as seen on the Naim App via Naims UnitiServe. Asset was the same. –

The very same folder/files as served via Minim. –

And during play –

(Ignore the fact these are ALAC files, it was just for the purpose of testing. I did the same with WAV too)

The Naim App does annoyingly give me a 'Various Artist' top tile via Minimserver when viewing the album in album view (which I've raised on the Minim forum: Simon believes it to either be a bug or 'feature' of the Naim App as Minim is sending the correct tag info)....but other than that issue all the other resulting display is exactly as I would ideally like it....and with much more 'tuneability' to boot...!

I would far prefer to stick with the Naim server and have everything easy and harmonious, but in light of the Naim's restrictions and limitations, it's hard to look past an alternative UPnP server – even if it does mean manually tagging all the rips. I would love to hear that Naim may update their server's software and capabilities to allow for more user tweaking, in the same way they are updating the streamers and App, but I'm fearful to hold my breath........

So – and apologies for the preceding ramble – what I'm wondering is this: If I still were to go with the UnitiServe/NS01 (perhaps in a straight jacket) and do all my rips etc, could I manually tag the WAV files and potentially have 2 UPnP options at my control point using the same files – MinimServer for now and it's superior display/ordering results, but also still have the Naim server in place and useable – and who knows, if there's a future update that improves some of the matters then I could always switch 100% back to the in-built Naim serving....

I tested tagging the WAV files generated from the US with dBp and all seemed fine playing the files and the resulting viewing on the Naim App, from a standalone folder....But what I didn't foolishly double check before handing the US back was those WAV files being in the Naim Music Store as databased by the US, whether having tags present in the WAV files would upset the US database in anyway...?? I'm aware Naim state that users shouldn't make any amendments to the files within the Music store, but I'm hoping/presuming this is simply to prevent users inadvertently removing required files etc. If I add tags to the otherwise unpopulated WAV files, and therefore change the modification dates of the files, is it going to upset the UnitiServe..? Further, and perhaps a stupid question, would it effect SQ when the Naim is serving the same WAV files if they have tags in the header...?

As many here will know, the Naim rips seem to store their metadata elsewhere. I'm still not sure if that's within a internal – and hidden – database or if it uses the extra files it generates in a ripped album's folder – there's a XML file in there, but I don't know if this is used in anyway or if it just helps out with the Rovi lookup on the App..? The extra files are fine to stay within the folder as MiniServer doesn't seem to be bothered by them, so my theory is they can be used by the Naim server and then the WAV files once manually tagged can also be used via Minim – all from the same folder and location.

Has anyone tried this and can confirm either way....?? Any experience or views on the matter I'd appreciate.

Alternatively – Naim, please....add more customisation to the Servers and UPnP delivery...!

Thanks, SC