Best USB to S/PDIF converter for Naim DAC

I haven't tested it, but there is a relatively new USB to spdif converter called a Mutec MC-1.2 which might be worth adding to your shortlist. It has a BNC output as well as phono and optical. 

I use a Gustard U12 which cost me about £110 through a well-known online auction site (from China).

I can't answer for your specific setup, but it changed my Mac Mini with Audirvana through Hugo to sound the same or slightly better than ND5XS through Hugo, whereas without it the Mac Mini/Audirvana with unisolated USB into Hugo sounded distinctly inferior to ND5XS into Hugo. 

i haven't compared the Gustard with anything else, and without an opportunity to listen before buying it was a risk, but the low cost especially compared to some other offerings made the risk seem worth it, and I'm very happy with the result.

likesmusic, IB, Wat, thanks for your contributions! A few additional remarks on my original post:

The list in my original post is not meant to be exhaustive, of course. I have myself tried - beside the M2Tech hiFace Evo - another M2Tech device (the hiFace Two with BNC connector) and the Meridian Explorer. I found the M2Tech hiFace Evo better than the hiFace Two but I have not (yet) compared the Evo to the Explorer carefully (I tend to use the Meridian between an iMac and the Naim DAC, mainly for video streaming).

The main rationale behind my post is that the connection between a computer and the Naim DAC (and, to a possibly lesser extend, to the Hugo) is generally acknowledged to have a non-negligible impact on the sound quality or signature. In spite of this fact, it seems to be difficult to find systematic comparisons of S/PDIF converters, in particular for the Naim DAC. Naim itself does not provide any useful advice on this subject (I understand they are trying to push customers towards LAN-based streaming solutions but, given the way UPnP servers and the Naim App currently support browsing and searching classical music collections, I am not at all interested in this approach) and the dealers I happened to talk to also did not appear to have accumulated enough know-how on S/PDIF converters for the Naim DAC. Therefore my post.

Hi nbpf,

I think its not a coincidence that the relatively low response rate here mirrors the dealer experience, ie its often hard to get a demo of any such products, and rarer still to be offered an A/B comparison of 2+ different options in a good listening environment.  I suspect that most folks take pot luck on a device that seems to fit the bill, as I did (HiFace2). 

There is an interesting secondary question as to which, if any, devices best suit the nDAC  -  or any other given DAC.  I do believe in such things as system synergy, but its also possible that the device which is generally considered best of class may sound best into all DACs, regardless.  I don't know that, its just a thought.  But if that were the case it probably steers us back to our old friends in the hi-fi press to see what the reviews say..... :-(

Agree. On the other hand, USB to S/PDIF converters can be borrowed quite easily and home-demoed in much the same way as cables. If the impact on sound quality is significant (as it seems to be the case even for the Hugo), it is a bit strange there is very little discussion on these critical devices. Of course it would be nice if Naim would provide some recommendations and guidelines (they must have made some systematic testing before relying on Audiophilleo converters for the V1). But so far I could not find any useful information from Naim on this subject. By the way, is it the "hiFace Two" or the "hiFace Evo Two" that you are using? Best, nbpf

It sure would be useful.  Maybe scope for get togethers and amateur "group tests"....... ;-)

I did read somewhere on the web a blog-test where a guy assembled quite a haul of these devices and went through them pretty exhaustively.  It was a good read but I'll be damned if I can remember which forum etc I found it on.  He liked the Evo with "add ons" very much.

Mine is just the basic HiFace2 (non Evo), ie the one that looks like a black version of the orange HiFace DAC.  It has performed well enough, but as with all things I'm sure there is room for improvement.  And as you have pointed out, its hard to find out for sure without taking another leap in the dark.....

well remembered, as I had forgotten that I'd seen that too when I was looking for one, but remember it as a forum not blog: if you google usb isolator review forum evo you!ll find it immediately on Computer Audiophile.

Whilst it doesn't include the Uptone or the Gustard U12 To name two, it certainly can give a starting point, although in practice the results of course could differ between DACs, and between computers.

If you want the very best USB to SPDIF converter, and are prepared for a bit of easy DIY, get a Luckit Wave XMOS IO board & power it with a Paul Hynes regulator.

Thanks karlosTT, IB! The CA comparison is indeed very interesting and is the one I relied upon when I originally bought my M2Tech Evo.

I just thought that, after about two years and a few new devices, it would be interesting to collect some experiences from actual Naim DAC users. S/PDIF converters have also been discussed in this forum, of course. In https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...65#37750163355104965, for instance, there have been both positive and negative reports on Audiophilleo and M2Tech Evo.

I guess some of these contrasting opinion can be explained by different individual  preferences. But, as you point out, equipment might also play a role. From this viewpoint it would also be interesting to know what Naim does actually use to evaluate the effects of the upcoming DAC firmware upgrade. We should probably expected the upgrade to be optimized for systems in which the Naim DAC receives data from a Naim streamer. It will be interesting to see if eventual improvements on SQ are preserved in replay chains in which the Naim DAC gets data from a non-Naim USB to S/PDIF converter.

Best, nbpf

Thanks tonym! Have you compared the Luckit to other S/PDIF converters with a Naim DAC? Best, nbpf

With Naim DAC, I have tested Audio GD Digital Interface (model from around 2010-2011, not the current one), Stello U3 and now I have TeddyPardo U2S. When I got Naim DAC, I had Audio GD's Digital Interface with external PSU. It was good but didn't base on the XMOS chip, which is quite well known nowadays as a very good base for an USB to S/PDIF converter. Of course there are many other aspects which affect the sound. After Digital Interface I tried Stello U3 and immediately preferred it over Digital Interface. It's based on the XMOS chip but uses USB power instead of external PSU. It still outperformed Digital Interface. Now the current converter I have is TeddyPardo U2S, which is also based on XMOS chip but has Teddy's own PSU built in the same box. It only draws signal from USB. This makes A HUGE difference compared to Stello U3. Cleaner sound, more depth and impact on bass etc. The difference was very clear when I switched between these two. 

Before Digital Interface I've owned or auditioned in my own system: M2Tech Hiface (one of the first ever USB to S/PDIF converters), M2Tech Hiface 2 and Musical Fidelity V-Link 192. I don't remember clearly but it might be that I auditioned Musical Fidelity with Naim DAC also. If so, there was nothing to mention there.

I've also auditoned Naim DAC-V1 (it has Audiophileo technology built in) in my system and compared it with Naim DAC. I must say that V1 comes very close to Naim DAC sonically when connected directly with USB. Where it didn't shine was the preamp section which was simply bad compared to SN2.

Nowadays there are several other competitors on the market but I've been very pleased with U2S and have no plans changing it. For connection to my PC, I use Chord Silver USB cable. Also tried AudioQuest JitterBug but it didn't have any noticeable impact in my system. 

Patu, thanks for the very informative and very nice write-up! I currently use a M2Tech hiFace Evo with a Teddy Pardo power supply. I have considered replacing the M2Tech and the Teddy Pardo power supply with the Teddy Pardo U2S. This would eliminate one box, albeit a small one. Best, nbpf  

IIRC Evo doesn't use XMOS but something else. U2S vs Evo would be an interesting comparison, especially when you have external PSU for the Evo. 

Adding to my previous message, I've owned Naim DAC since 2011 so its sound is very familiar to me. 

SJB, John Kenny recommends the Ciunas is powered all the time either by USB or a wall wart, I bought a certain something from TP that supplies both my Ciunas and my external HDD and I was very pleased with the improvement.

Steve

Let apart in Germany ... The BAD seems anyway to be in a different price range than the convertors many of us currently use to feed the Naim DAC. I have the impression that using a BAD to feed a second hand Naim DAC would be a bit unbalanced (but of course it would be interesting to know what Naim considers to be appropriate inputs for their top of the range DAC!). In this price range a Hugo TT would probably be a simpler and more elegant solution. Best, nbpf

I'm afraid I didn't think much of the Naim DAC so I've never used it with the Luckit. I've made the comparison with the Stello U3 and the HiFace thingy and it's better than either.

You can customize the digital outputs of U2S, just tell which you prefer when ordering. 

Berkeley Audio Design Alpha is something I've been drooling after since the beginning but the price is just too steep. It would be interesting to try it out though. 

I also run Teddy U2S and ndac. Its great. For me; Really full, punchy deep bass. Wonderfull analogue feel with lots of PRAT. Every thing runs through Audirvana. sounds better than my former NDX, by far. On USB-cables I read a lot of reviews an ended up with a Chord (silver something) which was cheap and won a lot of tests. Did not try on my own though. 

Fred

Well it seems that our source chain is identical then, congratulations for great choices!

I have also tried Unitiqute2 streaming to Naim DAC, eliminating the need of external USB to S/PDIF converter. This combination sounded way worse than the Stello U3 I then had as my converter. 

I didn't really audition USB cables myself either. Just wanted to have better cable than the stock ones, for the sake of peace of mind. 

Thanks tonym! Best regards, nbpf

Thanks Fred11! It seems I'll have to give the TP U2S a try. It's a pity it is so difficult to demo even a few of all these converters without spending hours at the customs. Best, nbpf

Patu: Great to hear about others with the same comination in this time of digital jungle!

nbpf: try it!  Mister T. P. Has money-back arrangements, so you could demo first and send it back if you do not like it. It should match Naim well since he known his Naim....

Fred

Very interesting thread for me.

I own too nDAC and XPSDR. The only converter i have tried was a first generation HiFace which i did not like.

Since then i used a mac mini with an optical wireworld cable and later a Unitiqute2. Unitiqute2 is better but i am still not satisfied. In the summer my dealer offered me a NDX for 1 month demo.

NDX is clearly better from all as a digital transport but is not perfect either (sometimes has a little digital hardness). I think i could further improve NDX performance by improving my network setup (cables, switches etc) but i think its to much money to spend and i am looking again for a usb to spdif converter.

It seems to me that for less money i can reach a performance similar or better than NDX. I can source WEISS INT204 for around 1600 EUR and U2S for around 600 EUR.  What do you think?

All I can say is that when I tried Audirvana on the Mac Mini, into Hugo's hi def USB port, the SQ was significantly worse than ND5XS into Hugo! which I described as like a veil thrown over it. Recognising that the issue could well be USB-borne noise from switch mode power splies etc in the Mac, and hearing that the Hugo's designer preferred the SPDIF input, I thought an isolator/convertor might would do the trick. I also considered changing the Mac power supply, but reasoned that if the isolator did its job there'd be no point. 

There then was a question of which one, and I opted fore a cheap one on the basis that I was prepared to risk whatever the difference between purchase and S/H value, and having read some good comments, and no bad, on the Gustard I ordered one. 

That elevated the Mac Mini / Audirvana to be at least as good as the ND5XS, i was therefore satisfied - the combination had made my silent server into a very adequate renderer.

So the Gustard was worth every penny. Whether the more expensive ones would sound better I don't know, but some of them are pretty costly, so I wouldn't even consider without hearing first, though this thread will help decide what might be worth considering trying to hear, but only when tried with Mac Mini into Hugo.