Best USB to S/PDIF converter for Naim DAC

I must be doing something wrong; I had my UQ2 feeding my Hugo which was pretty good, borrowed a Mac and tried Audirvana 2 into it and the next day bought a Mac Mini abd Audirvana 2.  To my ears the latter was hugely better than my UQ2 which I subsequently sold.  Whilst I'm still tinkering with the Mac I'm really happy with the way it sounds and the horror stories I hear of the Hugo's USB shortcomings just don't make sense to me.  I'd really like to hoome trial a very good USB spdif converter just to see if I am missing out but a) its not possible to do and b) I'd be amazed (and very happy too) if I got a big improvement on what I already have because I'm really impressed with what I have.  Perhaps I am just easily pleased

Or perhaps every individual Mac is different, maybe the RF noise varying by production batch, and possibly influenced by local mains power cleanliness, etc. In that case, it is even more important to hear an isolator/convertor in your own system, or be prepared to take a risk.

I'm using the MM as server, with a pair of 1TB SSD internal drives, all my serious music on a dedicated one. MM is connected to wired network, for when not music playing, but WiFi disabled, ditto Bluetooth. MM is headless. No other software is in use when playing music, Audirvana in optimized mode including Av's library not iTunes. Dedicated USB output, and no other OSB connected.

When I first tried it, I was quite disappointed given the praise lavished by many, the thought of my new NAS server replacement functioning as renderer allowing me to dispose of the NDXS and effectively fund the new silent server for nothing having been very attractive.

That was where the modest cost of the Gustard seemed to be quite a reasonable risk in context - and indeed the gamble paid off.

Maybe the answer is simple, if the MM +Audirvana is as good as your Naim streamer you shouldn't expect an isolator/convertor to make any difference, but if not then it could well fix it, and a cheap one may well do...

Is USB -> Hugo consistently better than Optical -> Hugo? If I am not mistaken, both connection should be available on MM and Hugo.

In this case, it would be interesting to know if users that are not satisfied with the sound quality of USB -> Hugo tend to find Optical -> Hugo better and if this assessment chages when the MM is fed by a cleaner power supply.

Conversely, it would be interesting to know whether users that are satisfied with USB -> Hugo tend to prefer it to Optical -> Hugo.

If not, it might well be the case that the different assessments simply reflect different subjective preferences of different users.

@dayjay: for peace of mind, it should not be very difficult to demo a decent USB to S/PDIF converter. But, as you point out, it might be difficult to demo a very good one. For video streaming with I often connect an iMac to the NDAC via optical. While a Meridian Explorer (USB input, electrical and optical S/PDIF outputs, headphones output) clearly improves on the headphone output of my laptop, I have not found that putting it between the iMac's USB output and the NDAC's optical input is an improvent over the direct connection iMac -> NDAC via optical. But things might be different with high(er) resolution audio, of course.

Audirvana's maximum quality is only available bypassing the internal Mac soiundcard, so not available through the Mac's Optical output. 

I agree that conclusions are of course subjective, however in my assessment of Mac Mini / Audirvana to Hugo USB without isolator the poorer SQ compared to ND5XS to Hugo was so marked that other family members in an adjoining room asked why I kept switching to something worse as I was doing AB comparisons on different music (they had no idea what I was doing).  

as for USB vs SPDIF input on Hugo, I can't compare with the isolator as it doesn't have USB output, only SPDIF (electrical and optical), AES/EBU and IIS.

Thanks for the precisations, Innocent Bystander! One conclusion which perhaps could be drawn by putting together your experience with that of Wat, dayjay and others is that the Hugo USB input is not very much source agnostic. This would not be very surprising and, possibly in conjunction with different subjective preferences, could explain the different assessments on the sound quality of MMUSB -> Hugo. Best, nbpf

I'm toying with getting a Gustard U12 to try out.  I think it will do DSD over DoP too.  Only slight shame is the lack of a BNC output.

I'm also going to try out a rather interesting left-field USB-s/pdif convertor from Germany, a Yellowtec PUC2. It's quite different to other convertors, being a proper bit of pro studio kit and also being a proper interface with in/out facilities including onboard A-D.  It only has AES/EBU so will need a 110-75ohm transformer, but I'm told it should be worth the hassle.  It could be interesting...

Go for it! It'll make an interesting comparison.

Richard Dane posted:

I'm toying with getting a Gustard U12 to try out.  I think it will do DSD over DoP too.  Only slight shame is the lack of a BNC output.

I'm also going to try out a rather interesting left-field USB-s/pdif convertor from Germany, a Yellowtec PUC2. It's quite different to other convertors, being a proper bit of pro studio kit and also being a proper interface with in/out facilities including onboard A-D.  It only has AES/EBU so will need a 110-75ohm transformer, but I'm told it should be worth the hassle.  It could be interesting...

Richard, the PUC2 lite looks very interesting.  Please do report your findings.

To covert AES to SPDIF BNC, are you using Neutric NADITBNC-MX ?

Charlie

Richard Dane posted:

I'm toying with getting a Gustard U12 to try out.  I think it will do DSD over DoP too.  Only slight shame is the lack of a BNC output.

I'm also going to try out a rather interesting left-field USB-s/pdif convertor from Germany, a Yellowtec PUC2. It's quite different to other convertors, being a proper bit of pro studio kit and also being a proper interface with in/out facilities including onboard A-D.  It only has AES/EBU so will need a 110-75ohm transformer, but I'm told it should be worth the hassle.  It could be interesting...

Thanks for the reply Richard, I am looking forward to read about your findings!

With the firmware upgrade in place, DSD capabilities and happy Naim DAC users, the question of external USB-S/PDIF conversion is likely to become even more relevant.

I am new to this hobby and I have a single simple and straightforward system. I would like to keep it as simple as possible. From this perspective, a BNC output is for me mandatory. Ideally, I would like to get rid of the USB-S/PDIF converter altogether and rely on a source with excellent S/PDIF output. I still hope Naim will some day come out with a black box with superior S/PDIF output and certification for an open OS. I have even considered buying a second hand Uniti Serve and trying to install Debian on it but for the time being I will stick to fit-PC devices and external USB-S/PDIF conversion.

This thread already shows that Naim DAC users deploy quite a wide range of USB-S/PDIF converters. Perhaps it would be worth trying to arrange them in a table. Price is an obvious dimension. Many devices appear to rely on the same XMOS processor. Some support DSD, BNC output, ...

Among the devices that have been introduced this year, I very much would like to try the M2Tech hiFace Evo Two. It adds DSD capabilities to the hiFace Evo and does not require proprietary drivers for Linux and OS X. It also has all I/O on the back which for my setup would be much better. I have recently noticed that the TP U2S is offered with some discout: perhaps they are about to come out with a version supporting DSD?

Charlie, I'll be using a Canare BCJXJTRB for the 110-75ohm conversion. I'm not sure whether it's best to attach at the PUC2 end or at the DAC end with a BNC-BNC coupler.  I'll try both ways.

Richard - I'll be interested to see how you get on with Yellowtec. I couldn't get mine to work and there was little to no support from manufacturer or supplier, so I returned it and stuck with the Gustard. 

Interesting Huwge. How did you have it set up - OS, driver etc?  Did you have the full-fat PUC2 or the PUC2 Lite?

Was PUC2-Lite with a Neutrik converter rather than the Canare. Was trying to use with Macbook Pro (ElCap), so theoretically no driver was required. The Midi application on the Mac recognised the device, but there was no way that I could get any sound out. I tried from iTunes and via Aurdirvana + with no success. I had found a thread on Computer Audiophile (iirc) and that was the best place for support, and a schematic as to how everything should be connected. The only thing that I could not test was the Neutrik transformer, but I had no reason to believe it was faulty. The Gustard, by comparison, was just plug and play as was an M2Tech Evo - with the Gustard being a step up from the M2. 

I would have liked to get the PUC2 to work, but it was just to much hassle, especially as the supplier and manufacturer were not particularly helpful.

With the latest firmware upgrade to the n-DAC, I am quite happy with how things work.

Huw

OK, thanks Huwge.  That has tempered my anticipation somewhat.  I will try on both my Apple MBP and Toshiba laptop running Windows Vista.  The PUC2 just has to arrive from Germany...

This is just to remind, in first line myself, that a fairly comprehensive list of USB-S/PDIF converters can be found at http://www.thewelltemperedcomp...com/HW/USB_SPDIF.htm.

Another interesting 2015 product is the Audiobyte Hydra Z. Has anyone had a chance to try it for the Naim DAC? On headmania.org it is reported to be better that the previous Hydra X model which, in turn, was found to be at the same level as the Audiophilleo 1.

I confirm the Gustard is simply PnPnF (plug 'n' play 'n' forget). For reference it'll handle up to 384kHz and I believe it has DSD capability, though I've not tried .

I have used with my NDAC (in order of preference):
1) Audiophilleo 2 with aqvox usb power supply
2) Musical Fidelity V-link 1
3) Hiface 1

Aidiophileo2 (even without the separate usb power supply) sounded better than Musical Fidelity and hiface.

The result with the Audiophilleo 2 with separate usb power supply is very close to the usb stick plugged directly on the NDAC usb port. On 44Khz files, I still prefer "slightly" the usb stick.

Did any of you use a SPDIF interface (or streamer) that can beat the usb stick?

The Audiophilleo is another option I have considered, but as both the Gustard and Yellowtec reportedly outperform the AP+PP, I had discounted it.  Those who have tried the Yellowtec PUC2 seem to be of the opinion that it's at least the equal of the Empirical Off-ramp and possibly also the Berkeley Alpha.  I'll have to take their word on that as I don't have them to compare.  I am however, looking forward to trying out the PUC2.

Fabio Volpe posted:

Did any of you use a SPDIF interface (or streamer) that can beat the usb stick?

I haven't made systematic comparisons. But I would expect the ideal situation for playback to be one in which the whole data to be played reside in a very fast, low-voltage DAC-internal memory.

A USB stick is perhaps a better approximation of such an ideal situation than a S/PDIF stream filling a relatively small buffer.

I am still dreaming of a smart company building a replay device that can load a whole set of data to be played to its internal memory before starting replay and that can cut all connections to the external world as replay has started. In this mode of operations, it would be completely immaterial how the data have been transported to the device.

Fabio Volpe posted:

 

...

The result with the Audiophilleo 2 with separate usb power supply is very close to the usb stick plugged directly on the NDAC usb port. On 44Khz files, I still prefer "slightly" the usb stick.

Did any of you use a SPDIF interface (or streamer) that can beat the usb stick?

Although not quite on topic, I have managed to get my Synology NAS -> ND5 XS -> Nait XS-2 set-up to match the SQ obtained when using a USB stick.

Doing this required extensive use of clip-on ferrite chokes (to suppress RFI) on the network cables and on all SMPSs in the area.  A bit of a pfaf but well worth it.

Richard Dane posted:

Charlie, I'll be using a Canare BCJXJTRB for the 110-75ohm conversion. I'm not sure whether it's best to attach at the PUC2 end or at the DAC end with a BNC-BNC coupler.  I'll try both ways.

Thanks, Richard.  I suspect the details of 110-75 Ohm conversion, location, cable, cable length will matter at least in subtle ways.  I am considering to try the PUC2 or similar on my Mac Mini some time in the new year.  So I look forward to hearing of your experiences.

Charlie

Richard Dane posted:

The Audiophilleo is another option I have considered, but as both the Gustard and Yellowtec reportedly outperform the AP+PP, I had discounted it.  Those who have tried the Yellowtec PUC2 seem to be of the opinion that it's at least the equal of the Empirical Off-ramp and possibly also the Berkeley Alpha.  I'll have to take their word on that as I don't have them to compare.  I am however, looking forward to trying out the PUC2.

Richard, do you know of any attempt at systematically comparing USB-S/PDIF interfaces beyond the meanwhile 6 years old

http://www.computeraudiophile....ters-shootout-15327/

? I came across another new german converter that could be quite interesting, at least according to the specs: the Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock USB. Do you have any information on this device? Best, nbpf

Dear all, I would be gratefuf for every feedback on the following devices:

- Audiobyte Hydra Z

- M2Tech hiFace Evo Two

- Mutec MC-3+ USB

Thanks, nbpf

Related but not quite purely a comparison of USB to S/PDIF converters. I tried both an M2Tech Evo and a Audiophileo 2 w/ Battery Power Supply.

I was biased towards the M2Tech Evo since it is carried by a dealer I trust whilst the Audiophileo was an online purchase.

Upstream was a MacMini. I could not even get the M2Tech Evo to work with the MacMini. Scarce documentation and unresponsive support from M2Tech had me sending the Evo back to the accommodating dealer (who could only manage to get Evo to work with Windows).

The Audiophileo has been as close to set and forget you can get when you are into this streaming from a computer game. Certainly a big step up from the optical out of a MacMini (and an Airport Express before the MacMini). The fact that the Audiophileo is powered via USB means one less SMPS to plug into your mains. It also does not take extra shelf space--in case this is a consideration.

The Evo of course can be upgraded with a linear power supply and an external clock. Wonderful for tinkerers with lots of space and a nightmare for those with significant others to please aesthetically.

Last weekend, I slotted an NDX into the system. I'm not sure if it is system synergy with the Nait XS-S44 downstream, one less SMPS polluting the mains, less complex chain (less cables, less interfaces), etc. but the MacMini w/ Amarra and the Audiophileo + Battery Power Supply now lie idle. User ergonomics and overall system stability has also taken a step up with the NDX + Naim app.

I've kept the nDAC (though currently unused) on the FraimLite though. I'm awaiting the Naim digital interconnect from my dealer to try with the NDX.