NDS - The Answer?

Mostly Drummer, it seems to me that you have made up your mind: go for the NDS and do not care whether this is (or will be) the "best" solution (of which problem, how long?). It does not really matter: enjoy your choice, look forward to the system to be delivered, installed and run in and ... let the music flow! Best, nbpf

The NDS with one or two 555PS is a mighty fine sounding streamer, but do listen first to see if the way it communicates to you is right for you with the rest of your equipment... It wasn't for me to my surprise, but I could certainly appreciate the quality and resolution of the DAC circuitry and its DSP and analogue stages in the NDS.

To the comment above with the Hugo and sounding flat.. Yes i find it absolutely sounds unemotive if you use the USB.. If you use a galvanised SPDIF source like a NDX or NDS it's a completely different story... but if you want to use USB then I say stear clear of a Hugo.. If you want an emotional, absorbing listen with the Hugo, which is what it tends to excel at, use SPDIF.

Simon

I wouldn't usually disagree with Simon but on the Hugo and USB I do.  I use a Mac Mini and Audirvana 2 into my Hugo via USB and find the sound to be excellent, much more resolution and far more enjoyable than I had with my UQ2 via spdif which sounded great but veiled and dark in comparison. I'm sure an NDX sounds excellent but once I'd heard this set up I was happy

This is what I went for, replacing CD555 with NDS, and I am delighted with it. The US does a brilliant job at the heart of it.

+1 Wat 

There is is no 'best'. It's frustrating not knowing whether something amazing will be released next week when sending that kind of cash, but that is the reality. You have to choose what you love today, and if it's Naim you know it will still sound as good for years to come.

Fwiw the 272 is a star, and might be worth a listen - could save you some cash. I think it sounds fabulous, though I haven't heard an NDS to compare. 

When I got the 172 I told myself that was it for a good while, a decade, but now I have the NAP200 I'm thinking how nice a 272 would look with it. 

And then you will be thinking that a 250DR would look good with the 272, that way madness lies! 

I know! Aaaaaagh. :-)

I very much agree with your viewpoint. And "Simplicity" and "elegance" are probably very fragile and subjective judgements.  I acknowledge many people like playing around with iPads and iPhones. They possibly find such devices "simple" and "elegant". To me, these are crippled computers I very much dislike. If one is happy with the way the UnitiServe defaultly handles folders, files and tags, one might come to the conclusion it is an "elegant", "simple" ripping solution. If one would like to configute such behaviour to fit her needs, or one would like to transfer files to and from the Uniti Serve via rsync, one might come to the conclusion it is an outdated, stiff technology running on a crap OS.

The content of user guides, however, is not a matter of subjective judgements. I found reading the user guides of the products I was interested in to be extremely helpful for making my choices. For instance, I had initially considered buying a Uniti Serve to directly connect to the Naim DAC via S/PDIF (at that point I had already realized that I did not wanted / needed to implement a streaming solution). Forum opinions on the Uniti Serve were, as one should expect, diverse: it was enough reading about half of the user guide to realize that this solution would not have worked for me. Heaving read the user guides of the devices I was interested in also turned out to be very useful later, when talking to dealers.

Best, nbpf

Regarding the USB and the Hugo.. I guess it must depend on the sources uses. I have only used Mac computers as source using various 'audiophile' software packages and has left me cold.. I put it down to the electrical noise coming from the Mac, which with my Aplple devices is not inconsiderate. But I guess if it is noise related, and you were able to reduce it then USB theoretically should sound as good as SPDIF, I have just never achieved this with the Hugo, but I am pleased for those that have.

Persoanlly I also don't like the complexity of computer playback, I prefer the simplicity of always there streaming..

Of course the NDS is a very low noise device, I am sure closely followed by the NDX, hence why I suspect these devices make good SPDIF transports - although I am not sure too many NDS users use it as only a transport however....

Simon

Well, my low-power music server is on 24/7 and can be controlled by whatever device running an MPD client wirelessly. To me, it is a very simple and "elegant" solution. As a bonus, it does not require any Ethernet wire into the living room.

The server is a small 12x12x2.5cm headless, fanless computer. It comes in a solid, black aluminium case. Its surface is almost indistinguishable from the one of Naim boxes.

yeah I agree streaming can be low power and elegant. I use a little Raspberry Pi as a server and that is powered by USB - it barely gets warm - and is no larger than a kitchen box of matches. I do have Ethernet in the living room because of my Sky Box, AppleTV and now my hifi streamer.. all in all simple.

You have to choose what is right for you - and some people may prefer more tinkering and complexity for their music servers on computers etc - and there is nothing wrong with that - its just not for me when I work with that stuff most days.

Simon

Cheers Harry, and thanks for summing up my opinion!  After 3+ years of great music and trouble-free ownership, I remain a big fan of the NDS and have zero interest in changing.

I also a fan of Asset UPnP, which was easy to set up, and continues to provide extremely reliable music service to multiple devices in our home.

Some additional NDS thoughts here:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ly=32541172421273540

ATB.

Hook

Three years!

Flippin' heck.

For some time, I was obsessed with NDS vs KDS story and did a lot of listening tests: NDS/555x2 in a fully active Naim system (at Naim factory actually), KDS in fully active Linn system (at Linn factory) and finally settled at KDS with Naim amplification and Kharma speakers. 

To me the difference between  KDS and NDS/555 is significant but not as big as to say that one of them "trashes" the other. Both perform on the top of Olympus and I can easily live with any of them.

The choice is highly dependant on musical preferences and I can clearly see how NDS is doing a slightly better job on some tracks which I normally do not listen a lot. But yet again KDS is not far better than NDS on the tracks which I do listen on a daily basis.  I may easily switch to NDS in future if I change my listening preferences (which happens over years). Many people tend to exaggerate the differences between these two absolutely amazing sources.

I never cared about the price difference between KDS and NDS/555x2 (which is substantial) and I never cared about the box/shelves/cable count (which KDS again wins hands down) but I settled with KDS for pure sonic reasons: KDS is a slightly bit more analogue player and more comfortable to enjoy for prolonged listening. I do expect though that the next top steamer from Naim may bridge that small gap (with a lot of extra dosh).

Naim is still building amazing amps which other brands can not match -- at least within the same price range. And the difference with top Linn amps is to my ears more profound than let's say between NDS and KDS .

I do agree that modern technologies are evolving these days and battery-powered solutions and  highly stable compact clocks and high-power micro-processors offer a lot of improvements to the old designs and Naim should explore those and integrate them into their future products. But many of these things fail miserably when they are packaged with the conventional output stage which can not drive preamp with a tight grip and eventually naimophiles may not accept these trade-offs because much of what they love in Naim comes exactly from this part of the streamer/DAC/CDP circuitry. For some reasons, the knowledge in gain stage and high speed voltage regulation designs is not easy to re-engineer which secures Naim at the top of audio world for quite a while. 

Mostly from people who don't own, haven't heard, etc.  No one is opinion-less.  It's a hi fi forum.

Hi Harry -

Upon a more careful read of your post, I must offer a correction:  it was AllenB, formerly of this parish, who coined the phrase "NDS Retirement Village". Of course, you and I were charter members of this fine institution!  

My forum participation over the last month or two has been sporadic, so I only just now noticed that Allen is gone. I know that forum rules prohibit discussion of members who have left, and that is not my intention. I would like to simply offer a belated au revoir, and to thank Allen for his many years of thoughtful posts.  Am sure that I am not alone in hoping that someday he will decide to return.

ATB.

Hook

Hi Hook and apologies to Allen (wherever you are). Isn't memory a funny thing? 

Well, at least the village is still thriving. 

Forums tend to be revolving doors and I hope we'll see him next time around.

I'm not sure that Allen has 'left' as such.  He still pops up occasionally on some threads although he has changed his set up completely.

Allen changed his setup? Whats his new setup? I see him posting over at the Roon thread recently where I am also a regular contributor. He goes by the same nickname AllenB.

I also joined and stayed in the village a while ago. I still would leave the village however for a ND555

I will also retain that option as I'm sure many will. I think it more likely (though I know nothing) that a Statement level streamer  will emerge at some point.