Fantasies about going vintage...

Nothing wrong with vintage fantasies!

Old is the new new. Old is better in every way. No progress has been made.

Enough with George and his antenna!

Wait, this is about Hi-Fi? 

I'm getting really bad about only replying to the title...

Fred 11

I would keep all the boxes either black or olive,why mix if you don't have too ? Why not try 282?

Karl

Thinking about going vintage!

I could now do that in one fell swoop by getting something like Leak 12.1 power amp between the tuner and an ESL. 

I am very tempted to do this, and run the V1 with the NAP 100 onto the stereo pair of ESLs, and run the radio through a system whose youngest component would be just over a half-century old! A separate speaker cable run would mean switching source from digital to radio would involve changing speaker wire at the speaker end. 

All I have to do is save up for a nice 12.1 ... , which denotes 12 Watts, and 0.1 per cent distortion. Not a bad claim for a design from 1948! And who really needs more than 12 Watts anyway?

ATB from George

Leak Stereo 20 very nice with ESL57s George, if you've never had the pleasure.

Fred, Mango was a big fan of 72 with 200. There may have been a HC-DR in there too. 

Chris

I thought the 72 sounded wrong with the Hicap DR, but then again i don't think my last two 72's were all that anyway, (even serviced). I do remember my first 72/140 however, purchased ex demonstration, and it was a cracker.

Yes 12W is plenty. I am currently swapping between Nap 140 and Leak stereo 20. I wont say which I prefer!

Dave

I am quite sure that progress has been made, but one step forward and two back in some cases, such as the adoption of stereo as the standard recording format.

As for which is better, this will always remain a subjective individual opinion, because what is best has nothing to do with advanced or old style technology, and everything to do with the pleasure that results. 

I think someone pointed out that the Leak Trough Line tuner is no Naim NAT 01. It is hard to argue with the objective [and factual] truth of this, but which is the more enjoyable will always be a personal and subjective thing. And the truth is none of us can really explain why one thing brings pleasure and why something else does not or brings less!

ATB from George

Dear Chris,

If I went for a Leak Stereo 20 amp, then I'd have to try to get a Point One pre-amp. It would be getting expensive!

But an orphaned single 12.1 would not be hugely expensive, and being mon rather easily to restore without needing to match two channels.

Mind you, I would not turn my nose up at a Stereo 20! Perfect restored ones without silly modifications cost something similar to a NAP 100 [or slightly less sometimes], but it would be a radical departure.

If I went for monaural VHF radio in the classical style and stereo digital derived replay in the modern style, this would make for a nice contrast. I love the effect of both. Both have something special to offer, I think.

I do have to say that though the Trough Line is obviously not in the modern hifi style, it does the essentials so beautifully that I am now listening to Radio Three in the evenings rather than Radio Four, or watching DVDs. I have always found that about an hour of listening to recording is suitable for daily servings, and on Sunday [and sometimes Saturday] some very big piece of music like the Saint Matthew Passion [three and bit of hours] goes well. But after that no more music is suitable till next day. 

In a way I am glad to be being drawn back to Radio Three, because the news is so dismal in every respect these days, and as I sink into the evening of my life, I realise that not only is the World a terrible mess, but there is by now absolutely nothing at all I can do about, except not waste things!

Well it hardly matters if I waste my own time, but that is my exception to the rule, which you will probably forgive me. 

As a child music was this secret and special place I could enter and for the duration be freed of any other thoughts ...

ATB from George

Dare I say, Nac 42.5 - Stereo 20, sublime! (To my ears anyway)

David

Fred11, if vinyl is your thing then maybe a 72 with the correct MM or MC will sound fantastic but why stop there sell the lot and look out for a 72/HiCap/250 then spend the remaining cash on vinyl.

I use a 72 that Gary once owned but it's not quite the same pre anymore but tha cannot be discussed on this forum.

You should dare say it!

Indeed any of the Naim pre-amps that had mechanical selectors [the pre-remote control models], would be nice, and the ones I have heard all seem better to my ears than the more sophisticated Olive pre-s, while they are different enough from the Black series pre-s that it becomes simply a question of personal taste rather than having any value as a question of defining one better than the other!

ATB from George

I suspect a serviced 72/HC/135's would  put a big smile on your face, especially with vinyl..

ATB,

Mark

Dear all. 
Thanks for the interesting associations and thoughts. I´m not really looking to better the sound, so no 282 for me now. I am interested, maybe in a nostalgic retromania (som call it) way, wanting to find out how the 72 compares to the 202. I got my hands on a recapped nait 2 som years ago. Running it with my sources and speakers makes me wonder about what I really need and given that four boxes and 5 times the price does not sound that much better, different and better in some aspects, but not really that much better, is really a lesson. I also sometimes feel that the warmth and flow of the nait betters the 202, and given that, maybe the 72 is a much bigger Nait 2? Is it like you write, George;  " two steps forth and one back", and that also gives me a thrill. 

I have read though that the olive is better with vinyl, but when I play with my Nait 2, the ndac-xps2 with its powerful bass is really, really nice. 

Fred

ps. If I were to buy a nap 72 I would recap it. 

Fred,

Your SBL's will love 135's. The 200 does not get the best out of them.

Fred, the 72/Hi/135's is very much like a more powerful Nait2, retaining its flow and character. I'm a massive Nait2 fan, and have found that it not only competes with many newer pre/powers or Nait's, for example 5i,XS,SN,202/200, but betters them in many areas except outright power. I also prefer it to a 72/140 or 42/110.

I've just looked up what a Dac V1 actually is and it seems to me it (yours) could act as a pre into a Leak Stereo 20, unless I've massively misunderstood something.

I sort of assumed that a Stereo 20 would be cheaper than two 12.1s. My one time Stereo 20 was restored but not messed with (if that makes sense)... would probably have done you nicely.

Fred, I know where you're coming from on the Nait2.

Cheers, chris

Dear Chris,

I would expect the superbly modulated stereo output and control of volume of the V1 would work very nicely with a Leak Stereo 20 power amp, but I have rediscovered the simple pleasure of immersing myself in the monaural effect of the Trough Line on just of channel of the NAP 100. Further work on antenna position has produced good results even on pop music radio, so I must be getting somewhere ...

I am now on the cusp of really going for monaural reproduction. This will double the service life of my ESLs, and reduce the impact of the system on my quite modest living room and allow for optimal positioning of one speaker, rather than the inevitably sub-optimal positioning of two. 

Setting up a mono replay is bliss in comparison to the insoluble problems of trying to get two speakers working in inevitably asymmetric set-ups. 

It strikes me that the volume reduction from playing from one speaker is nothing compared to the coherence that also results.

The problem as I see it is how to sum the stereo output of the V1 to mono. Almost all the stereo recordings in my collection are mono compatible - there result is not spoiled by comb-filtering due to incoherent phase, which is product of hot or spaced microphones - so effective mono should be easily achieved for the recorded music I love.

What I need is an active [powered and buffered summing] pre-amp section to place after the V1 and in front of a proper [if low power] mono power amp. 

Until you have heard this, your imagine could run wild to find the quality the mono Trough Line can bring on one channel of the NAP 100 onto one ESL. Clear, balanced, easy to enjoy without strian or distraction.

It gets out of the way - a very lucid presentation of the musicality of the performers ...

I guess that I, like Odin, I am wishing the Tide out, but this can be done, unlike fighting Nature. 

Valves are not soft or blurred, but only just a bit forgiving, and that is no bad thing in terms of getting enjoyable replay in the home.

However as a source the V1 does very special things itself. No doubt the gentleness of a great vintage mono power amp will do nothing to diminish what it does so well.

Very best wishes from George

Ah, mono. You could stack the other ESL.

C.

We could do with another eleven of your calibre, dear Wat!

Best wishes from George

PS: Please read the above post. I am on the verge of actually doing properly what I have wanted to for more than ten years ... A very significant moment for me in finding what I seek from replay. Thanks be for the old Trough Line for lighting the path in a way forgotten after forty years ...

Interesting comments George.

A HiFi mate of mine is running Consanance Cyber 211 monoblocks which are 7 watts a side with JM Lab Focal Electra 926 speakers which are 92 dB sensitive and its more than enough for high SPL levels if needed.I Have become a real convert to high sensitivity in loudspeaker design.It just creates an easy load and the sound is easy on the ear as the amps are'nt getting close to clipping.

Cheers Ian

Thanks for input. 

The 135 is noted, though I do not feel I need more power. Going retro is not only about getting the best. I hope Naim will have a Vintage-fever from now on. Appreciating the good old stuff, not only the newest and "best". 

Regards

Fredr