Naim rip vs PC rip

Posted by: AMA on 23 April 2011

As many of you are aware there is a long rant on the Naim vs PC rips through a number of forum threads.

At the same time there is quite a simple procedure to put the end to this endless dispute.

Why not to take WAV file and burn a CD.

Then rip it with Naim machine (HDX or US) and then with EAC/dbpoweramp and see how do they go bit-by-bit against the original file.

Bad luck it didn't come into my mind when I had US on a home demo... Is anyone there can do this?

Posted on: 29 April 2011 by Tog

@AllenB

N-Serve controls the UnitiServe/HDX as players and so is going to be faster than a control point that is trying to manage a stream via UPnP. I suspect that ChorusHD caches more information than N-Stream and so can speed up navigation.

I've been very critical of N-Stream in the past but am currently managing to live with it despite preferring Remote. There are brief lags but with my latest test VB server build (100 albums) these aren't really that noticeable. Perhaps adding a NAS as an additional stage to your UnitiServe slows

things down a bit.

Remote is certainly better thought out and has user feedback animations that enhance the whole experience. It is also a key part of Apple's Airplay strategy and with the arrival of iCloud later this year I expect frequent updates. N-Stream 2 is much better and I hope Naim will respond quickly to the realisation that control points are a much more important part of the streaming process than they first imagined. It may be difficult for the more obsessive audiophiles to grasp that in the real world people will accept aural compromises for convenience and ergonomic design.

My next VB server will be housed in a MacMini Server which for me provides the widest possible range of future options.

Tog

Posted on: 30 April 2011 by james n

Hi Allen - disappointing. I wonder if Chorus would drive the NDX . Sound like you have a good solution with the n-Serve app and its associated hardware.

Hi Guy - appologies. Mobile browsing is not the easiest way to follow the thread hence my misquote

James

Posted on: 30 April 2011 by AMA

Originally Posted by AllenB:

Disclaimer: To save my legal a**, and hopefully placate the mods, please respect the copyright, these files are supplied as samples, please delete (or buy) after testing

Click to download (from my MobilMe account)

File 1:

files.me.com/allenbretao/eezmgp

File 2:

files.me.com/allenbretao/jjen6q.wav

Allen

P.S> And please no ribbing on the track selection, it was completely random

Allen, I have downloaded and listened both tracks through Foobar/HiFace/nDAC.

I failed to pick up a difference. I checked the peak level and replay gain with Foobar -- they are the same for both tracks. I deleted the files.

Allen, thanks for this arrangement -- very demonstrable.

I think likemusic is right -- let anyone who HEARS a difference between two rips with identical PCM data upload the samples for public judgement. I do believe that someone may get non-accurate rips on PC due to the HW problems or non-optimal SW settings. But that will be two rips with different PCM data.

I still believe that once your CD-drive is OK and EAC is properly setup and you get OK from Accurate Rip after completion the ripping process you can be sure you have properly (and uniquely) copied original CD data.

Posted on: 30 April 2011 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi AMA,

What was interesting was those two files were slightly different in how they were internally structured, but from a sample/playback perspective and the with the sample data structure they were identical.

Unless the CD is badly scratched / faulty all RIPs should be the same. Some older systems or inflexible ripping software might have incorrect timing offsets for the CDROM drive used which means the fraction of a second at the start or end of the file might contain different amounts of track silence, but not really significant, and iTunes on the PC is the only current software I know that can suffer this with certain CDROM types. This is not an issue for EAC or DBpoweramp where this is correctly managed.

Simon

Posted on: 30 April 2011 by Jack

Allen

Completely agree with you about the n-Stream app, what a pain. I've also been using PlugPlayer which I prefer and the delays don't seem as noticeable but still there. I have been playing with the NDX this week via the nDac. Had some problems getting it working with Twonky from my NAS although this had previously worked well with the Qute. Anyway switched to using Asset on my PC and it works fine now albeit with the issues you have highlighted.

It has started to make me think that a server solution e.g. HDX/US may be preferrable at least from a setup and usability perspective. It's a while since I listened to the US which I thought was very good so it's difficult to compare to NDX without doing a side by side comparison. However, first impression is that there may be limited differences - both solution being used through nDac.

Cheers

Jack

Posted on: 30 April 2011 by Tog

@AllenB

Agreed - caching the library tree is the way to go. The CP software is a vital part of the process not an additional bit of icing on the cake . Perhaps if Naim are going down the airplay route they don't see the point of too much development. The CP is a far bigger issue if you have a Uniti/Qute/NDX than fretting over rips IMHO.

@TJ - caching - it worked for album art - what do you think? Shuffle (real shuffle of entire library and of course playlists ...?????

@James n - have tried Chorus Mac - which spent hours searching for a DS I didn't have. If you check the Linn forums I think it's fair to say Chorus is not without its own issues.

Tog

PS After spending just a few hours tagging flac files with Picard (excellent but fussy) and Bliss I do miss the simplicity of my Itunes library where I keep a duplicate of everything in aiff and where tagging is simple.

Posted on: 30 April 2011 by Hook

The biggest thing that concerned me was the idea that, if I wanted to hear the best a Naim network player could offer, then I would have to buy a US or HDX and re-rip all of my CD's. If that were true, then I would have continued to lobby for a bulk import/conversion tool from Naim. Re-ripping was just not an option for me.

Thanks to Simon's efforts, I am now fully convinced that is not the case, and I now feel that I can purchase an NDX (or more likely, a future network player...an NDS) and not worry about the rips. So thanks very much Simon -- really appreciate your efforts!

Hook

PS - On a personal note, have left the frozen north lands of Minnesota, and arrived in sunny South Africa. Am staying at my sister-in-law's hillside home in Pretoria, and all of the sights and sounds and smells are wonderful. Fired up my mobile audio system a short while ago (Macbook Air, external USB drive with lossless ALAC files, Centrance DACport, Sennheiser 650 headphones), and it sounded quite good! Good enough where I hopefully won't miss my black boxes too much over the next three weeks. Funny, but I just realized that it feels very comforting to be this far from home, and yet still be able to follow this forum!

Posted on: 30 April 2011 by james n

Tog - it works fine for me - and that's the most important thing :-)