US get O.B.Laden?

There are very few things I hate but Fox News is top of the list.

I was up early to prepare for a presentation when Obama came on the news to declare the death of OBL. After a few moments of astonishment, shock, surprise and confusion, a sense of calm came over me.

My religion advocates peace, shared living and compassion towards all humans regardless of their faith. Because I am an Arab and a Muslim, I am glad that the man has been killed. His evil methods have done nothing but murder civilians and deepen western hate and racism towards us. The world before 9-11 was much more tolerant and forgiving than it is now. I hope that the death of OBL will declare the end to that ugly chapter in human history and allow people of different faith to reconcile.

Regards...

Dear Flame,

I hope you are correct and that is from a personal [and Christian] perspective. My late mother's third husband is an Irano-Jordanian Muslim, and he is a very gentle gentleman. Kindly like an Angel ...

Bless, G

Do we know if Donald Trump is going to ask the White House for an official death certificate?

Nicely said.

Dave

Dear Flame,

I wonder what happened to the Islamic faith of my youth. I had many friends at home in Hong Kong and at boarding School in England of the Islamic faith. One of my best friends at school was an Iranian Muslim.

My school was a faith school, Christian Church of England, and interestingly pupils of non Christian faiths all had permission from their local place of worship to attend morning chapel in the school church.

Also the religious leaders of the other faiths would give readings from their religious books to the congregation on a regular basis.

So i consider I have a broad experience of the Islamic faith.

However wherever you go in the world today Islam has become Intolerant, Mysoginistic and increasingly Medieval especially in its conduct towards women and to followers of other faiths.

Moderate Muslims do not seem to stand up to this.

I went to Sydney in 2006 and worked in an area which had  a large Muslim population which in 2006 was moderate. The largest Muslim group was Lebanese. In about 2008 it was noticed that the wearing of the Burka was becoming more prevalent and even the wearing of the veil too. I worked with two  moderate Muslims and asked why the changes and they said they were against these changes. The female member of staff was being pressured by her Mosque to wear the burka, and she said she did not have to as long as she dressed modestly which was to cover her arms and legs. In Sydney there is a suburb of Lakemba which is almost exclusively Muslim now and as a result it is not wise for non Muslims to venture there. The leader of the Mosque was a tolerant man who was totally medieval in his conduct especially towards Infidels, Blasphemers and women.

I live in a sea side resort in Suffolk and last weekend there was a woman in a Burka on the beach. So why if she only has to dress modestly does she wear the Burka??

I really do not understand modern Islam.

I keep hearing that Islam is a faith of tolerance and understanding, but see very little evidence of this in the modern world.

regards David

Dear David,

During the 1980s there was a "revolution" of sorts within the islamic world. After a surge of western-like behavior among the muslims during the 60s-70s, extremists came back to "revive" med-evil Islam. This has lead a group of muslims to adopt a more strict form of Islam that is unfortunately influenced by personal bias rather than religious teachings.

The behavior of muslims today is fa from the behavior that Islam encourages. This story might put things into perspective. I go to Friday prayers at the mosque and it is at that time that I feel so ashamed of what Islam has become. People park there cars illegally in order to catch prayer rather than show up early in a calm and spiritual manner. At the entrance of the mosque, shoes are chaotically piled up around the door rather than properly kept in the designated cupboards. Cleriks or Sheikhs would not smile when making eye contact as if the mere thought of enjoying themselves or allowing another soul to be happy would doom them in hell. When prayer finishes, people rush out through the doors, pushing and shoving in a barbaric way.

At that moment, I ask myself why have people strayed so much from what Islam asks them to do? In a saying by the prophet mohammed he says "The reason I was sent by God was to refine the etiquette of human interaction". To me, the epitome of this is embodied in kindness to others, honesty, punctuality and being decent.

Forgive me, for not all muslims, maybe not even most muslims, are a true representation of what they are asked to be. The Burka or veil is not an islamic mandate but a cultural habit that has been "Islamatized" to help enforce it. What do I do to make sure that Islam is not misunderstood? I behave myself, perform my work with dedication, teach my juniors at the hospital and treat everyone I meet with kindness. The hope is that this might portray the image that was intended for my religion.

Regards...

Dear Flame,

thankyou for that.

It has answered one of the strange aspects i encountered in Sydney.

In the 1960's many Christian Lebanese were forced to leave their country and seek Asylum in Australia. These people that i met were delightful courteous people.

As an aside i missed the BOAC VC10 that was blown up at Beirut airport by 12 hours, i was on the next flight from UK to Hong Kong. I saw the smouldering wreck at Beirut from the plane i was on.

Anyway back to my story.

In the 1980's many Muslim Lebanese sought Asylum in Australia and they moved there. Strangely they moved to the suburbs where the Lebanese Christians had established a community, and the outcome was not peace and tranquility. The loathing that the Muslims had for the Christians was a surprise for me. So i asked a friend about it and he said Australia had imported the Lebanese Religious War.

If you look at the UK there has been a history of fear and loathing within the Christian faiths too. Just look at the Republic of Ireland, Catholic, and Northern Ireland, Protestant.

When i was at school we had all the troubles with the IRA and in Bristol we had 4 bombs care of the IRA.

So nothing new in the world of religious bigotry and prejudice.

regards David

The US/UK axis of paranoia and greed will have to invent a new sinister evil in order to continue the hugely profitable war on terror. I wonder who it will be? No doubt we will soon be reading about a power struggle within (the non-existant) Al Qaeda between the (relatively) moderate lunatics and the totally mad lunatics and how the totally mad lunatics have won and how they present an even bigger threat than Bin laden posed blah blah blah - well it sells newspapers and keeps people glued to Fox News while governments continue to erode civil liberties unnoticed and arms manufacturers and private security companies get even richer.

Of course we won't really know what went on during the assault on bin Laden's house until Tom Cruise stars in the movie.

Script is being written as we speak. Kathryn Bigelow was already working on a story about a failed attempt to get him and it's being hastily reworked at the moment.

Flame,

I admire your openess on this forum. I also note your actions which you hope portray the intention of your religion. Your actions are the same, or very similar to many of the actions carried out by followers of other faiths, agnosticts and non-believers. These actions are probably all that the average man in the street can actually do. Most of us don't have the charisma, or the skill to influence large populations.

Here in the UK there are plenty of church leaders, agnostics and non-believers who do have the skills and who use their skill and position to condem the words and actions of extremists, especially extremists of their own faith. Unfortunately, these church leaders (I use this in a very broad sense) very, very rarely include Muslim or Islamic leaders. For some reason, moderate Muslim leaders in the UK seem to remain silent. Indifferent, possibly reluctant to condem even extreme views or actions, never mind the creeping personal bias of the type that you noted in your post.

Is this just my imagination, or is there a reason?

If Muslim leaders around the world were quick to condem their own extremists and were to positively promote religious and racial harmony, I think it would be an enormous step forward towards a more pleasant world.

I appreciate that I might be blind to what others perceive as indifference of Christian leaders and Christians (and other faiths) living and working in the Middle East. If this is the case, I'm sure plenty of people will put me right. After all, its well over 40 years since I first went to the Middle East (for about 5 years) and about 15 years ago since my last visit. Things have undoubtably changed.

Cheers

Don

Dear Flame,

Strict, fundamentalist, violent..........best to stop at "moderate" IMHO, but I suppose one man's "moderate" is another's "strict" etc.

I think most on this forum (including me, and I guess your goodself) read newpapwers and watch TV news broadcasts with a touch of sceptism. Its nearly always "bad" news and as you so rightly state, bad news sells more easily. It would be nice if news was kept factual, accurate and complete. And of course, it would be nice if government agencies could provide the media with honest information in the first place.

I'm not surprised that different religious groups in Syria (and elsewhere) get along together. They seemed to do so in Iraq, well, at least Tariq Ali and Saddam Hussain seemed to ! We also seem to get along reasonably ok in the UK, but IMHO tensions are mounting these days and to my mind we all need to condem extemism and creeping personal bias - even if it has to be through the voices of representatives.

The only point i'm trying to make, is that 90% of a moderate population needs to speak up, otherwise the 10% vocal minority might prevail. And i'm refering to all populations, not just Arabs or Muslims.

I think the world can manage if 90% are in favour of harmony, providing the other 10% aren't extremists. Its worth noting that democracy alone isn't a solution for all our problems, but IMHO its a good basis from which to start. I'm not sure how things will develop in the Arabian Peninular, but I hope it doesn't involve the violence seen in North Africa and Syria.

Cheers

Don

The only point i'm trying to make, is that 90% of a moderate population needs to speak up, otherwise the 10% vocal minority might prevail. And I'm refering to all populations, not just Arabs or Muslims.

Think how Germany fell into popular support for Hitler. Not initially anything to do with a real majority, but rather that the majority were too slow to wake up to what was happening in 1926 till 1933.

Hitler had cannons, shells, bombers, and bullets.

The extremists, of what ever stripe, potentially have the atom bomb now ....

ATB from George

Should bin Laden have been caught and tried?

Peter,

In an ideal world perhaps, but in reality it’s not that easy. They didn’t exactly knock on the door and ask if Mr Bin Laden was home. It must have been chaotic in the compound with the SEALs not knowing what lay round the next corner or what firepower was going to be used against them. Was the place booby trapped? Was Bin Laden wearing a suicide vest? He was apparently offered the chance to surrender and refused. They did the right thing as far as I’m concerned.

And if he had been taken alive, what then? Where would he have been held during the period leading up to the trial, which could have been years? Who would want him? Can you imagine how many hostages would have been taken, how many terrorist attacks there would have been? And if he’d been sentenced to life in prison? I shudder to think what this would have led to.

Bin Laden was directly and primarily responsible for the murder of 3000 Americans and 1000 other assorted individuals.    Maybe the US had it coming, as many in the rest of the world think, but I for one am unapologetic.   If anybody ever needed killing, Bin Laden needed killing.    Millions of my fellow Americans and others around the world would have bought a lottery ticket for the opportunity. I have been impressed that the US had both the technology and the will to find him in a remote location and get the job done.

No offense to Muslims, but I don't see much leadership among the "Muslim leaders" and have not since I have been paying attention, around Sep. 2011.    Does anybody "speak for" Muslims the way the Pope or the Archbishop of Canterbury speak for their followers?    What do they say about OBL?  I hope they want their religion back and can get it back now that he is out of the picture.

Good bye and good riddance.  RIP.

Re:  No offense to Muslims, but I don't see much leadership among the "Muslim leaders" 

The Muslim religion is not structured like Roman Catholic or CoE with a supremo type of leader.

There are strong local leaders, some are head of a country,  but no global leader as such.

Hopefully the so called Arab spring will begin to move the balance in favour of the silent peaceful majority & away from the extremist minority 

Amazing news....Irish Commando's have just stormed Debenhams in Dublin.  They were led to believe that

Summer Bed Linen was on the premises.

Yes Im naughty and my wrist has been slapped by my Irish wife who did laugh a bit.

If OBL was killed - without trial or conviction was he not murdered? Was he not only murdered but murdered on foreign soil? What is the evidense that he anything to do with 9/11 other than the fact Fox News et al said he had? Why was his dumped at sea? Smells fishy to me.

Ho, ho, ho, Sniper.

You really had me going there, until I got to the punch-line - he-he!!

Cheers

Don

because Fox news is the word of God and shall be believed no matter what.  Also my sister said he did it and I believe her.

Well you know what they say 'If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it'. (wrongly attributed to Goebbels).

I don't know if you're being tongue in cheek, "smells fishy", et al. Are you serious about the rest?

If you are being serious, yes he was murdered on foreign soil. Good. I had friends die in 9/11. There's all the evidence in the world he was involved with it, he even admitted to it.

Geert Wilders is here speaking, but 'privately', to avoid being murdered by someone from the more militant factions of Islam.

Moderate Muslims aren't speaking out, because some support Laden and Al Qaeda, and some are scared there will be recriminations from the extremists.

And mark my words (or not), the so called democracy that the hordes in Egypt, Syria, et al are clamoring for is not the kind of democracy we're familiar with in the west. There's a reason why all these countries have to be ruled with an iron fist.

We almost had Sharia law here.

There are still problems regarding no go zones for the residents of France, England, and the rest of the EU. Multiculturalism is an important ideal to strive for, but there have been problems with the integration of immigrants into our societies.

The west needs to leave all of the arab/muslim countries and let them fend for themselves, and let them get back to normal.

Is Islam is under siege by Islamaphobia. Or is the world under siege by Islam?

Don't forget how many Muslim brothers Osama killed. Thousands.