Scotland leaving the Union

I don't know why I'm still replying to this nonsense but here goes, one last time.

Mind you what will Scotland do for a defence force, curency, border controls etc etc.

You know I bet that's never even been thought about until you mentioned it.

Have we not already been making a fair contribution to the UK armed forces? We've certainly provided more than our fair share in terms of manpower, casualties and war dead over the years. We're not starting from scratch. The UK Armed Forces will be split proportionately. This would obviously be part of an extensive negotiation process.

I'm not an economist so I don't understand your issue with currency. Alex Salmond is, having been a senior economist with RBS and then visiting Professor of Economics with Strathclyde University. I'll leave that to him and suggest you do as well. As far as I know we're not bound to join the Euro if that's what you're going on about.

Also, as far as I'm aware there are no plans for any further border controls than we already have. Why would there be? We'll still be members of the EU won't we you or are you trying to use another long discredited unionist argument? Relations between us and England would hardly change in day to day terms. Who'd want it to? I have English in-laws and loads of friends. Most do.

Scotland is unique in the UK in that it has only two major cities, Glasgow and Edinburgh. Also a large part of the country is very isolated especially the islands.

I don't understand this. Wales and Northern Ireland are in the UK are they not and their major cities are? Norway, with a similar population is almost five times the area of Scotland, much of it more isolated that anything in Scotland. They're doing quite well. What's your point?

Will Hadrians Wall be restored and reinstated as a border?

If it would keep forelock tugging curtseying English wannabes like you out it would be worth considering. Otherwise the vast majority of nice English people will always be welcome.

I still do not feel that Scotland is able to afford to become a Sovereign Nation.

Good. Then stay away. You obviously know nothing about and care nothing for Scotland anyway.

As an aside that great Political Commentator, Jeremy Clarkson,  was quite amusing in the Sun today regarding Scotland. Remember it is tongue firmly in cheek.

I'm sure he was in a bigoted racist sexist misogynist homophobic tongue in cheek sort of way. 

Why don't you send your queries to Alex? I'm sure he'll be delighted to allay the fears of a "Scot" like yourself.

Tom, It was a broken promise, no matter how much you wriggle. But not the end of the world - most polititians do it.

And i'm pleased to have been of service in helping you recal that he made the promise in the first place.

Cheers

Don

What makes you so certain that I don't fully understand? I do understand.

I have taken quite a bit of trouble to help a few of you recall what Salmond and the SNP promised.

Broken promises litter politics. I'm not impressed by people who make promises that they are unable to deliver.

Cheers

Don

Dom

A number of people have been at pains to point out to you that Alex Salmond could not have promised a referendum during 2010 when he did not have a clear Scottish parliamentary majority to do so.  However, you choose to ignore that fact (it is a fact) and instead rely on your claim to have run a Google search and to have found numerous references to this "commitment to a referendum".

Amazingly enough, I went to the bother of doing a Google search and can find no such categoric commitements of the type you claim to have found multiple references to.

You clearly do not like the man and that is your prerogative, but letting the facts get in the way of a good fairytale does you not credit.

Regards

Jim

Perhaps Scotland should apply to join Norway in federation? Mind you, Norway might not be interested ...

It would be one way out of the EU for them ...

WHY can I not have a passport that says Im English....or Scots or Welsh.   That aside I visited  the Moray Firsth not so long ago.  Very beautiful and the people all talked with a James Bond  accent...well the men anyway.

Quite friendly people,developed a taste for Petroni lager whilst I was their.

Just to be clear,

I understand that the SNP committed themselves (in their election manefesto c 2007) to a referendum in 2010. They failed to deliver.

Jim, Alba (and previously Tom) have stated that no such committment was ever made and Jim, despite internet searches, has been unable to find any evidence of such a committment.

The first statement is mine, and I stand by it.

I should be grateful to recieve confirmation, or otherwise, that the second statement is the position of those who do not agree with my statement.

Cheers

Don

Don

My last reply on this particular topic (at least in reference to your fixation on broken Alex Salmond "promises").

From the SNP 2007 Manifesto.

White Paper and Referendum

 Publication of a White Paper, encompassing a Bill, detailing the concept of Scottish

independence in the modern world as part of preparations for offering Scots the opportunity

to decide on independence in a referendum, with a likely date of 2010.

I see no promises here.  I see the word likely.  Given that a manifesto simply sets out the strategic direction and outlines of prospective legislation should they win sufficient support in an election to serve in government - then the fact that the SNP in 2007 formed a minority government and that their partners would not vote for a referendum shows the absurdity of your argument.

So Don, to be clear.  No broken promise. Now that the SNP has a clear mandate in Scotland and an outright majority then there will be a referendum of independance as promised by Alex Saland (as leader) and the party as a whole.  If in 2016 a referendum has not taken place then I will agree you have a case.

Until then adversus solem ne loquitor.

Regards

Jim

Well, I think I have managed to persuade most of you that the SNP manifesto of 2007 did contain a commitment to a referendum during its first term in office and that the likely date for such referendum was 2010. And we know that no referendum took place during the first term that Alex Salmond held office as First Minister.

Please feel free to debate the whys and wherefores amongst your good selves.

Salmond isn’t alone as a politician who has failed to deliver parts of his (party’s) manifesto. I find many politicians attract adjective descriptions such as “smug”, “devious”, “little”, ” creep” and Salmond certainly doesn’t disappoint.. Of course, despite his shortcomings, I actually like the guy.

Cheers

Don

Alba,

posts are often difficult to follow/interpret etc, so I simply wanted to ensure that positions were clear. "...confirmation or otherwise...." was my invitation to you to clarify/restate your position. Which you did - thank you.

In my book, I think I was being jolly decent.

Cheers

Don

Don,

You accused Salmon of breaking promises because it was in the manifesto and didn't happen. It's been pointed out several times that he ended up as PM of a coalition government in which his partners wouldn't have supported any bill which called for a referendum and so he simply wasn't able to hold one. Whether he would have if he could have we'll never know. A child could understand this quite easily, so I see no reason why you can't if you put your mind to it.

If he doesn't do it now, with the astonishing majority he has, then you can talk about broken promises.

No he has used "promised" as well. Much more damning in my opinion. Who on earth would make a promise without knowing the exact conditions under which he'd be working?

And still no link to where Eck says how much he hates the English.

And you forgot to mention me

One may not share the position of the Nationalist [specifically the Welsh and Scottish]. but one cannot but admire their persistence and integrity in persuing their agenda, offered as an election platform and in the case of Scotland, fully given a mandate.

I believe politics is called the art of the possible. If a political leader offers a promise of a policy but is stopped because he or she is in the position of power-sharing, then all bets are off with regards to commitments made assuming a Parliamentary majority. If it is impossible then it cannot happen.

Now that the SNP have a clear mandate then the Scottish people will be offered a referendum on Scottish National sovreignty, as it is now possible to follow through a policy that could only be implemented with not only a mandate, but a Parliamentary majority - unless the the promise was hollow. Clearly the SNP have the majority now, and good luck to them on the referendum. All in the Union must respect the choice of the Scottish people, made when the time is right.

The broken promise will only be apparent if the referendum does not happen before the next election.

ATB from George

Nail on head George.

Dear All,

Today in one of the tabloids business section was a small comment on this topic.

The Scottish economy would be smaller than Columbia, Finland and Ireland.

Its total GDP would be in the region of £120 billion.

RBS economist said that Scotland would be apportioned the UK debt and if the Scottish border went into the north sea then england would end up with some of the oilfields.

David

As I said above, you are free to discuss the whys and wherefores amongst your good selves.

Cheers

Don

Don,

I think perhaps you're the only out and out WUM on this forum. A distinction I suppose.