An interesting month

Good stuff Richard. I've been using Pure Vinyl, and I find the quality of their software to be exemplary.

Dave

Hi Richard,

OK, I see. It really should be a painless experience and, IMHO, one that the dealer should be looking after (I'll duck now) to ensure that the end user's experience is flawless.

Jan

Sounds like your dealer gave a refund because he failed.

Nice of him, but if the install was correct you should not have had issues connecting.

No, he did not fail. I bought under the distinct impression that the new apps would work - they did not.  That is totally outside his control.  So he did the honourable thing.  I will certainly use him again, when I upgrade.  His dedication and care was exemplary.  I felt very sorry for him after all his hard work.  

Richard

I have tried Amarra, but I was concerned at the loud noises at the start of some track when using Shuffle play within a Playlist. I had a similar problem but to a lesser extent with Pure Music. Talking to Rob of Pure Music and he says it is the drivers for the EVO.  Something about not flushing the cache quickly enough.  However, after his tweaking, including streaming through the RAM, it has virtually disappeared or so innocuous as to be unnoticeable and occurring only very occasionally.

I could not detect any sonic differences between the two.  Not to say there aren't any, just too subtle for me.

Richard

Hi Richard,

Putting aside your hassles with controlling the Serve, how do your listening experiences of the Serve and the MacBook Pro compare, from the point of view of involvement with the music, or time spent listening to music ?

Thanks

Jan 

>Talking to Rob of Pure Music and he says it is the drivers for the EVO.

Hi Richard

The use of non-standard drivers was one thing that turned me away from the M-Tech products. I think the hiFace is a good product, but I use the MF VLink that requires no special drivers and works as well as any USB to S/PDIF convertor I've heard - infact I prefer it to the much more expensive Weiss INT202 Firewire to S/PDIF. I use iTunes rather than non-Apple players and I haven't experienced any problems: I tried some other players, but found I preferred the standard Apple product. I use this through a Naim UQ, but it also works very well through a Naim DAC. I would think the VLink would work with Pure Music, if that's your preferred player. However, my listening habits are to play entire albums rather than playlists or using the shuffle so perhaps I've avoided rather than solved the problem you had. 

At some stage I'll try a Naim streamer, probably when they support Airplay as an alternative to UPnP to feed my Naim DAC. I have found the Naim DAC gives very good results with a humble little Sonus streamer. I'd be very interested to know if you have experienced any drop in SQ since changing from the Serve to an Apple system. 

All the best, Guy

Hi Jan,

I will also include Guido as well as he has asked a similar question.

First off, the Serve/Qute combo is superb. The Serve was connected via the Ethernet to my Netgear NAS (hardwired).  The bass was deeper and certainly more fuller than my present system.  However, the present system somehow appears more teasingly better.  I use that word deliberately because I am not clever enough to express my feelings accurately in words.  If you have a Serve/Qute combo and you are happy with whatever control interface you have, then stick with it.  The differences are subtle.

However, I can tell you that there is a heap of a difference between using the optical out on the MacBook and the USB of the EVO.

The other evening I was listening without Pure Music, (I was fed up with the pre-start of track noises, despite only being occasional with Pure Music) and without the EVO. So the system was using the optical output from the MacBook. I was busy playing Solitaire on the new iPad and I found I was getting irritated with the music!  Stopped playing to listen and all seemed OK.  Continued and again found my self somehow irritated.  So up into the attic to find the packed away EVO. I Carefully re-connected, re-installed Pure Music (pre licence version at this stage) all sounded fine. Went back to playing Solitaire. Long period of forgetting the music and no irritation.  When I mentioned this experience to Rob, he told me my this was a well known effect of digital jitter. Perhaps one of the reasons why so many disliked the early CD players. 

It may be I am more sensitive to this than other bad artefacts. I must add, I never felt any irritation whilst listening to the Serve/Qute. I am just trying to explain my finding within my system.

It told me that the asynchronous USB to Sp/Dif convertor was definitely having a marked improvement in SQ in my system. Pure Music just takes it a step further. Everything is more clearly delineated.  I want to go on listening for longer and longer.  Since purchasing the Pure Music licence (and having the expertise of Rob in setup) it has hardly been off.  I have lost count of all I have been listening to.  From mid fifties pop through Callas to Delibes and Beethoven. 

But as JN has told me, I must never forget the Qute is a very cheap (by Naim's standards) DAC.  I am sure there would be heaps more improvement with a dedicated DAC.  Maybe in the future.


Richard

@DHT

How do you find the Young compared to the Weiss?

Tog

Interesting - thanks. 

I have to use a converter because the Naim DAC and UQ do not support direct async USB so no choice really - hence the VLink: I agree async USB beats straight optical out from the Mac. I did have a hiFace, and tried the INT 202, but preferred the VLink. Perhaps there is a synergy with the Naim DAC or its just my personal preference coming in to play. I haven't tried the EVO, but decided to stay with the V-Link because it simply used core audio and no special drivers are required - so as Apple enhances core audio it should get better. I'm sure all these methods work well: the VLink worked staight out the box and no clicking or anything - I can improve it with an external PSU. Though long term I'll probably switch to a Naim streamer when it supports Airplay. 

I'm only running the essential packages on my Apple Music Server though I'm far from convinced this improves the SQ dramatically. I did try PM, but ended up going back to iTunes. Nothing wrong with PM, just couldn't get the improvements others have said. I'll revisit some of the other options as you suggest; I'm limited in what I can run on my music server because it uses the old Motorola G5 chips, not Intel (PowerMac G5 Dual OS X Leopard). I have tried playing files stored in memory from the command line too and I thought I heard an improvement, but I think I may have been fooling myself. 

That said, it really does sound rather good to me with iTunes and I'd want to retain iTunes for its user interface as I've got a library of Applescripts to do all the tagging. 

Though I'm all for improving it if I can. 

I used to use a Chord DAC which had a USB interface (probably not async), but sounded better through its Bluetooth APT-X interface to me. However, when I got the UQ for my office I passed it on, as I found the integral DAC in the UQ sounded better than the Chord. 

There certainly are lots of options. 

All the best, Guy. 

Thank you Richard for the detailed reply. Very useful.

Best regards,

Jan

Hi H

I'm very happy with my Naim DAC; I'm sure there are other options and it'll be a matter of personal preference. I haven't heard the Weiss DAC. The top Chord DAC, which I have heard, is very good too and it has that superb BT APT-X input, but I'd say it was different from rather than better/worse than my Naim DAC. Also my Naim DAC works with my 555PS - a way to switch the 555PS between CDX2 and Naim DAC would again be a nice option. 

To be honest, I simply audition Naim products and if they sound right then I'm happy. I used to try to mix and match components, but I never quite got it right so I've standardised on Naim for electronics and speakers. The only other components I use in my systems are Linn for record playing and Apple for computing. However, there are occasions when Naim doesn't have a product so I had to shop elsewhere for an async USB interface and headphones (Stax). I've heard lots of non-Naim kit and some of it has been stunning (neighbour's conrad-johnson based system), but I'm happy with what I have. I guess I'm not on a quest for the best hi-fi, but having bought Naim I'm trying to get the best out of my Naim system. 

It would have been good if Naim had provided an async USB input, but they stayed with S/PDIF. I suppose it does make sense as USB will probably go the way of Firewire and be phased out in favour of Thunderbolt interfaces or whatever comes next. Apple seems to moving on, yet again, just like the did with PowerPC chips - no Snow Leopard available for me and forget Lion (sorry Tog). 

Trying a different software player is no problem though as long as it will run on OS X 10.5 PowerPC G5 so I'll give that a go. The other option is to load UPnP on to my Apple server, but I'm not sure if my UQ can play AIFF so I probably would need something like Eye Connected to transcribe to WAV on the fly. 

All the best, Guy

Thanks Richard for your write up - seems the Naim UnitiServe SDD could be a possibility for me - although I've no real need for its ripping engine: though using it as an ocassional CD transport might be worth having the slot drive for. That said I like the iTunes UI. 

All the best, Guy

Hi Richard -

I just re-read this thread and must admit, like Manu, I too am confused.

Would you mind telling us specifically what did not work for you?   This is the first time where I've read that a Naim dealer could not get a US or n-Serve to work for a customer, and had to offer a refund.   Was it a bug?  If yes, is Naim working on a fix?  Or was it something unique to your setup?

Hopefully by documenting what you experienced, you might help others avoid whatever it is you ran into.

Thanks!

Hook

Tog is correct.  The fact that the N-Stream connected but only allowed the volume to be controlled or to change an input, but the N-Serve app would not connect at all, is but a part of the problem.  I absolutely hated the Dos style DTC.  I had to drag an old Dell laptop down from the attic just to get access.  True, I could have bought Fusion and installed a copy of Windows (eeuk!) onto my MacBook, when I would still have had to use the DTC to modify, edit and install my CD's.  Maybe I am too old to learn new tricks.  Maybe I am spoilt after using Apple's products.  Maybe I am just useless at computers, probably true.  But, bottom line, I could not get on with that DTC.  In comparison with what I am used to, definitely not. 

Naim are well aware of my problems.  I will not disclose what has passed between us and my dealer - that is private. 

I am not claiming that Apple's products are perfect.  Neither am I claiming theirs is the only route to audio nirvana. Excellent as a DTC, but not for best audio performance, no way. That was why I opted for Pure Music to supplant iTunes for the actual rendering of the digital audio, whilst keeping the familiar ease of use of iTunes.

I especially love the sound of Naim's products.  There is something so right about the way they sound. Nothing I have heard of other brands comes even close to Naim.

So as far as I am concerned, it has to be Naim products as far as possible, but I still demand an easy to use interface.  Hence my rejection of the UnityServe.

As I am typing this, I have just finished ripping two more CD's that arrived this morning and adding them to the relevant artists Playlists.

Richard

@Richard - there is a beauty in the sheer simplicity of using Itunes to rip/tag and organise your music library. I looked closely at the UnitiServe but with a house full of Apples and twenty years living with Macs it just seemed too awkward. Lovely casework - top quality manufacturing but not quite the sum of its parts. 

You can buy better phones than the iphone for call quality and some Android phones show off better screens. However, the iphone works because the software has been beautifully crafted to support the user in using the hardware.

The Serve is a great bit of hardware - the software is not.

Like McCartney without Lennon or Tom without Jerry.

I hope they get it right - I love streaming music and hate piles of boxes and wires. 

Tog