NDX user experience

I think a wireless bridge would potentially increase performance in terms of less likely for the music to have drop outs, provided it and the router were N compliant, especially when streaming high res files. I use a apple airport express as a wireless bridge. It is also conveniant if I want to stream music from my iphone for casual listening.

Actually whether the sound quality would be any different I'm not sure. I haven't noticed any difference between the Unitiqute wireless, airport express or actually using a network cable (although because of my NAS being a bit noisy I didn't keep it in the same room).

If you have a good WiFi network Naim equipment seems to work fine - I never get dropout on my Uniti - server plugged into main Airport Extreme with second Airport extending the network. This way the broadband router is only connecting to the internet leaving the Apple gear to deal with networking. In a very old house cabling would be a bit of a pain so for the moment it has to be WiFi.

Simon is absolutely right - leave Powerline well alone - nasty, nasty, nasty.

Tog

By the way nStream app is pants, please make this worthy of a £3k piece of kit!

so what would it take to be worthy?

Paul

 "Another thing you can do, is that if you can a wireless access point that creates a wifi network with it's own SSID that is not used by anything else other than your NDX and your server. 
Network segments such as wifi (and Powerline ) are single half duplex collision  domains therefore they work best when there is no other or minimum traffic on the network segment"

Hi Guys, 

I have an NDX on order. I've got an Apple Time Capsule / extreme base station.I too intend to use the wifi option and avoid cabling the house. Forgive me cutting and pasting the following features and please excuse my technical ignorance  but does the below jargon from Apple mean I can create a separate wifi network to pipe my music around the house and back up NAS, for my music alone,  like the  "own SSID option" mentioned by Simon above???

Simultaneous dual-band Wi-Fi.

For maximum range and compatibility, Time Capsule works simultaneously on both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, allowing all the devices on the network to use the most efficient band automatically. It uses the latest 802.11n wireless technology, so you can enjoy up to five times the Wi-Fi performance and up to twice the range of 802.11g wireless networks.⁴ And improvements in antenna design give you up to 50 percent better performance and up to 25 per cent better range than with the previous-generation Time Capsule.

Guest networking.

Set up a separate Wi-Fi network with a separate password for your visitors. Simply enable the guest networking feature, and your guests can use the Internet but can’t access other parts of your private network, such as your computers, printers and attached hard drives.

Wireless drive sharing.

Time Capsule also works great as a wireless hard drive, whether you have a Mac or a PC. It sets up in a snap, giving you a networked hard drive you can use for storing and sharing all kinds of files. If you’re a MobileMe member using a Mac with Mac OS X Leopard or Snow Leopard, you can even access the files on the drive over the Internet.

Thanks Tony

Time capsule is a wonderful thing if you want a quick backup "Time Machine" drive in a handy Airport Extreme enclosure. What it doesn't do is work as a fully fledged NAS so using it to serve your NDX wouldn't be a good idea. You could use it to store your Itunes folder but I wouldn't try to use UPnP with it.

IME it is quite slow, gets very hot and doesn't play well with non Apple kit. A Synology NAS would be a far better route.

Airport Extremes / Time Capsule use dual band Naim do not so I'm not sure what the advantage would be here. My Extremes use 5GHz to talk with my 4 macs and 2.4 to talk to my Ipads/Iphones and Naim gear so I suppose that may simplify data traffic.

Tog

What about the SQ? You owned a Sonos and a nDAC. I'm still trying to figure out if I will upgrade my Sonos with the nDAC or go for the NDX. I love the Sonos for its convenience and Spotify ofcourse. I like the multiroom and my wife has fully accepted the Sonos, so that's a compliment. Is the NDX significantly better then the Sonos through nDAC?

It must be me, but I don't understand the criticism of the nStream app. I think it works superbly. Never had a problem and easy interface. And as it's now free.....what's the problem? (Yes, I bought it. And thought it good value. So for nothing.......)

Agreed not a helpful comment at all.

I still think it is the best UPnP CP that works with Naim gear but it needs to develop more rapidly. For me the last update was a huge improvement but took a long time to deliver. Jan Erik is right in reminding us that the CP is a key component in a streaming or distributed system as it is the point of contact between the user an the music. It has to work well and respond to the needs of the users.

Increases in speed via caching (worked well with cover art) and playlist support are urgently needed.

N-Stream is good but has stiff competition from both Apple, Squeezebox and Sonos. On the subject of price, given the competition Naim have no choice but to make it free. Though in fact I assume it will be built into their margins.

Tog

Ok may be a bit harsh but compared to the ipad interface for Sonos there is very little in the way of functionality.  It is not free, the cost is surely built into the not insubstantial price of the product.

As said above the user interface is vital for these type of products, the remote control is not a viable alternative as you cannot read the display from across the room so these apps are a must have.

I would like to be able to skip back to the top level of menu, would nice to be able to create playlists on the fly, would like a graphic display of the track being played (total time, time remaining etc.) and be able to move through the track with a slider, would like cover art to be displayed with a decent resolution.

I could think of many more nice to haves but I would have thought the above are basics for such a premium product.

Don't get me wrong I love my Naim system but I feel that for the amount I have spent the product is deserving of a better user interface imho.

Tog

+1 from me, Allen you put that far more succinctly than I did, all those features would make me a very happy man indeed.

+1. That pretty much hits the nail on the head. N stream is a very conveniant way of working the streamers. its almost there, just a few extra features would make it great.

When playing an album you have less information available to you than a 20 year old cd player (track progress and how far through the album you are).

Allen, Rich, Tony62

Yes the aim is to have sperate wireless networks for your regular LAN traffic and AV traffic. Ideally you want seperate subnets for each and need a router (a proper router..) to elimate broadcast traffic and controlling muticast data  from one network impacting the other, but that is probably too involved to describe on this forum - unless it makes sense to you - in which case give it a go, althoguh to remember to forward the uPnP packets.if your server and receivers are on different subnets.

You can use different 802.11 protocols for each Wifi  domain, with consumer equipment probably easieist  to have two seperate consumer WAPs - ie an ADSL wireless router and an Apple Airport Express connected to the LAN with a different SSID on both, but if you have professional kit with two tuners you can set different SSID on different channels for each tuner using hte same protocol.

802.11a is at 5Ghz and has a large  range of non overlapping channels

802.11b/g are at 2.4Ghz and have a more modest range of non overlapping channels

802.11n is 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz - supports double bandwidth channels for greater throughput.

The advantage of 5GHz is that there is a large number of non overlapping channels - so get best signal quality and hence throughput. However protocols sharing the same frequency spectrum that detect each other such as b/g and n/b/g or n/a will downgrade to as not to casue interference to each other. This can make quite a difference on 802.11n as it forces it to half the bandwidth of its radio channels - hence significantly reduce throughput and act more like the other protocols.

Therefore a recommendation would be use b/g (2.4GHz) for regular LAN and  n on 5GHz only for the audio.

Simon

No offence Simon.

But this is why most people are still sticking with CD.

Put it in. Let it play. Hear music.

@Jon 

Tog

Hi Jon -

Are they?   Seems more like most people have moved on to iPod/iTunes.   Would be interesting to see if anyone has collected any statistics about us so-called "audiophiles".   Other than the fact that CD player sales have declined dramatically, I have no idea what percentage have moved from CD replay to hard-disk replay or network streaming.   But I am guessing that it is a higher percentage than you think!

Besides, Simon's post is primarily about wireless home networking, not audio.  You can avoid doing this by physically wiring all of your computers to your router.   But honestly, it is really not that hard to do.  People without computer backgrounds install wireless routers all the time. The install guide is usually just a few easy steps -- most of the install is automated -- and default settings work well for most homes.   And pc's (and music streamers) connect to them very easily:  select a network by name, answer a password prompt, and voila, you are on the net.   Also, all of the manufacturers have tech support lines you can call if it doesn't work right out of the box (but most of the time, it just does).

Of course, you could always give a 14 year-old a tenner to set it up for you! 

Hook

Simon / Tog and everyone 

Hi - this is all very new to me and I must confess i feel like one of those dinosaurs. So forgive my ignorance. 

My NDX and Serve are on order. Most of my music is stored on CD's which I intend to rip to the Serve and eventually locate in the study where it will perform duties. I tunes is downstairs on a Mac. I am going to set up a separate network for my music / av. Maybe using the streaming method on non overlapping channels as suggested by Simon. 

I am considering the NDX & Serve connected into a switch. Mac  also connected to the switch and a 2 xNAS, one for for backup. Leave the MAC running wifi, then plugging the Mac into the NDX via the digital connection as well. My thinking for the moment is keeping the i tunes on the mac and using remote to run it as it just works. I can then muck about with different formats and see how that works streaming to the NDX via UPNP / NAS. Meanwhile, letting the Serve take care of the CD's, keeping fingers crossed and hoping one day the Airplay situation is resolved. 

If I do that by my reckonings the Serve will be connected to the internet via the Mac, all be it via wifi as opposed to suggested best practice, the hardwired connection. But then the Serve internet connection wifi will just be used to collect track artwork, correct?

This will suffice whilst I get the CD collection ripped and can carry out some experiments as to what sounds best. 

Will that scenario just work? 

Best connection for Mac to NDX? Switch / NAS suggestions?  

Thanks 

Tony 

For what it's worth, and sticking solely to sound quality rather than the technicalities of streaming (covered exhaustively so far), my short home trial has yielded the observation that the NDX is the most revealing Naim digital component I've yet heard, as well as (potentially) the most musical, including the DAC. Works perfectly on its own, doesn't keep saying 'maybe you should try adding another box' or 'don't like that digital source' at you, like a couple of my previous items. Very nice - so far. Gets incredibly hot!!!

I would be surprised if you and your team don't know what needs to be done (but it is nice that you ask on this forum).

This app is the only thing holding me back.  I know you guys get the audio right but the main driver to move to distributed audio is convenience, ie, the app. 

You need to make the apps for the open solutions (NDX, Unitiqute) as much/more a priority as/than your closed solutions (HDX, Unitiserve). 

Hi: I have had an NS-01 for a while now and I only continue to appreciate the piece.  I have a NetStream system, which I will admit I don't love.  But the Naim section has proven to be nothing but reliable.  The sound quality is first rate.  I am at the point where the speakers need to go, as my system consistently reveals their shortcomings. 

I cannot imagine running a wireless connection to the unit.  Spending all this effort for a sonically pure sound, only to muddy it up.  Living in NYC, interference is everywhere, so despite having a wireless router, I run everything through a wired network.

I should also note that my NS-01 is connected to a remote NAS.  So really acting more like an NDX... I am currently pondering an upgrade to an HDX-SSD.

As I started this thread it is only fair to give a bit of an update after another week with the NDX.

First as somebody else said above, this is simply the best sounding digital source I have heard in my system imho.  Works flawlessly so far even though I am using it wirelessly.  I have added a Netgear wireless bridge and now have the NDX hard wired to this rather than using the wireless in the unit.  Not sure it makes any difference to sound quality but it sure has stopped the NDX getting quite so warm!

The nStream app I still think could be improved and posts higher up this thread adequately detail some of the improvements that users would like.  To be fair the issue of cover art I raised above I believe is due to the upnp server in my synology nas which limits the display to 100x100 pixels.

However, the app controlling the iRadio function is a major disappointment, it often seems to lose where it thinks it is and often does not respond to key presses.  Storing presets seems to be particularly flaky.

A final question, anybody have any idea what type of cable I need to connect the NDX to my NAC202 to use the system automation functionality?

You need a mono 1/8" on each end for control like this one from Radio Shack:

http://www.radioshack.com/prod...sp?productId=2102950

Hi Jon

No offence Simon.

But this is why most people are still sticking with CD.

Put it in. Let it play. Hear music.

No offence taken..

I admit my serious music listening currently is CD via CDS3 and FM via Cyrus FMX (my TT needs repairing). However I do play with streaming and is fun, but for me the Naim and other vendor solutions are a long way from the naturalness,  organic sound and detailed sound that my CDS3 gives me - it really is in a different league.

But the question was about ethernet solution other than wired for the NDX. Powerline is not advisable for the reasons we discussed but wifi can work very well. However if you have a lot on your wifi - like a family's woth of ipads, laptops, printers etc, my suggestion may help if you are relying on wifi for your audio.

All for keeping it simple, but no point being too simple if its not working correctly ....

Cheers

Simon