Relief or surprise?

Hi Mantisgb -

You are 100% right.  If you are looking primarily for background music, it makes no sense to put a lot of money into new audio components.

But if you were interested in "sit and listen" music, then quick a/b'ing is a terrible way to audition them.   Better to listen only to the component you are demo'ing for a few days to a week, and take notes.   Then ask yourself questions like:

* Were my listening sessions longer?

* Did my attention waver less?

* Did I feel more "connected" to the music?

Quick a/b'ing only engages a small part of our analytical brains to look for minor differences in sound effects.   That's not what "sit and listen" music is all about -- it is much more about making an emotional connection with the music.   And you really can only figure that out over a longer demo period.

Glad to hear that you did not make a unnecessary purchase.

Hook

Indeed, that makes a lot of sense. I can imagine that whatever I heard on that Alanis Morissette track is there to some extent all the time, and I would/will find the Squeezebox more wearing over prolonged periods. The truth that surprised me was that I noticed so little difference in an A/B comparison. I read a great deal about blind listening tests and I think that of the many forum posts, not enough of them focussed on the fact that we aren't necessary great at analytical listening and blind ABX testing (as I understand it) simply doesn't give account of the subconcious and subjective "how did I feel after a prolonged period of listening?".

I will try listening to entire albums tomorrow and give it another run. I'm not trying to troll the forums or be inflammatory, just describe my experience, which was unexpected to me.

I have never had any faith in the wisdom of A/B testing in selecting replay.

My method was to listen to music through any potential new replay device in isolation. Then ask myself the simple question - "Do I think this is worth the money given the musical pleasure that came?"

If I do not think so, then I fix another dem at another time to listen to something else in isolation.

When I bought my first Naim pieces [Nait Three and CD3.5 in the old Olive slimline casework] it followed a long and none too enjoyable session [about three hours] desperately trying to find the pleasure that should come with spending nearly £1500 on a pair of well reknown [at the time] pieces from another British Hifi company, and concluding that my existing kit was better even though the amp and speakers anyway were by then seventeen years old.

The saleman was as disappointed as I was, and came back into the dem room with the two Naim pieces. They were so good that in less than a minute, I asked them to box them and I picked them up next day! It saved me a few tens of £s to go Naim ...

I could have saved myself a whole afternoon if I had thought of Naim, but to me it was an exotic brand that like say Bentley cars was not on my radar as a possible purchase. So that was the exception to the rule, but ever since then I tended to try to get a week's home dem or at least a long session in the dem room with anything that might come.

Except for when I downgraded to a Nait 5i. In that case I just asked them to bring the little amp and I substituted the 52 and 200 with what had to be good enough, and it was.

That was an amazing day as the dealer was convinced that there must be blood on the carpet after the swap from such high quality pieces to the junior Naim amp of the day. At that point I learned that musical pleasure does not correlate very closely with Hifi correctness, because I was actually enjoying the music more for it being less interupted by splendidly accurate reproduction of the artificiality in the recordings!

And it reinforced my view that the only test that works is a listen to something in isolation without the distraction of comparison.

ATB from George

The minute people talk about dressing the cables - I run for the hills

Tog

For what it is worth Mantisgb, that is not the way I read your post at all -- just a straight-forward, honest recounting of your experience.   Hope I didn't come across as preachy!  Am a strong believer in "to each his own".    But am also a very happy Naim owner who makes it a point, for at least an hour each night, to lock the door, turn down the lights, and groove.   It has become an important part of my daily routine, and if circumstances ever changed, I would miss that "me time" dearly!

Again, best of luck with your decision.

Hook

Not exactly sure what you are looking for here.  If you have a streamer (in the form of a Squeezebox) into a Nait 5i I'm not sure where the Qute fits into the scheme of things.  Unless you are simple trying to use it as a stream only product in place of the Squeezebox?  Seems like  bunch of money to spend on something that you already have.  If taken in isolation it may be a different tale.  Such as replacing your Nait 5i and Squeezebox with the Qute entirely.  Simply replacing a Squeezebox with a Qute would not make that much difference in the grand scheme of things.

Try the wholesale replacing of your Nait and Squeezebox combo with the Qute, let it burn in for a few days and report back.

Mantisbg, I completely understand your frustration because I had a similar experience. I use a squeezbox device into my supernait DAC, and I took a nDAC home to test it over a weekend. According to the forum's comments, the nDAC was soooo good, sooo blowing away everything else, that I wanted to demo it just to be sure, but I was already almost sure to buy it.

Well, maybe I did the same mistake you did, A/B comparison, just jumping to one source to the other one, but to my ears the difference was not night and day, even in some case I preferred the SN DAC, just because the nDAC sounded a bit too detailed, bright and almost 'fake'...only on complex pieces (classic music), the nDAC was clearly better, but unfortunately I don't listen too much classic music.

In the end, even if I really wanted to buy the nDAC, i could not justify that price for such a partial (IMO, to my ears, in my system) upgrade.

In your specific case, as someone said, it probably makes sense to test the UQ as standalone player, and compare it with your system. The sound difference might not be that huge, but with the UQ you will have a one nice little box system which I find very appealing....and by trading you nait, the total cash outflow might be less than 1000GBP. Cheers

Thanks for all the replies. To summarise - I had exected, given the reviews, exactly what Plinko suggested - that is I expected to be easily impressed by simply the improved PSU, jitter free clocked better DAC that the UQ has, as an alternative path for my FLAC files to the SqBox before reaching the same amplification and speaker combination.

I have a couple more days to try some longer term tests in isolation. Its a shame but Naim have changed the spacing so the speaker plugs that fit my Nait 5i don't fit directly into the UQ I will need to put banana plugs onto the the cables and retest.

Flicking back and forth between sources does not give you the whole picture. Those little snapshots don't give you the opportunity to immerse yourself in the music. I have compared the UQ vs SB and the UQ is significantly ahead IMO. In fact I rate the UQ as one of the most engaing digital sources I have ever heard.

If you don't listen to music in the same way as many of us here do and are relating our experiences on, perhaps the cost is not appropriate for you!

Julian

I'm sure your intention wasn't to patronise

I've listened to hi-fi equipment for years and each time I've upgraded I've spent considerable time listening to individual combinations in isolation and then compared in an A/B type approach. In the past I have always heard a significant difference that was distinct e.g. synthetic, wooly, tight bass, harsh - so many adjectives which could relate to an obvious difference in the music I could hear. The Nait 5 + Dynaudio speakers were a sensational improvement on my previous system, I could relate to the adjectives people used to describe the 'Naim' sound.

My reason for posting was just to pass on my surprise that there was so little tangible difference in the combinations (SqB and UQ), especially given the way people talk about the U and UQ. Yes there is a difference, yes I could tell, no I don't think it is worth the money for me. There is clearly a  law of diminishing returns with hifi gear and I think I've just found *my* limit!

I'm in agreement with Julian here. The UQ is an amazing piece of kit in terms of what it can do and, more importantly, sound quality. I got mine early on and it continues to surprise me. 

Get those banana plugs sorted and try the UQ solo without the Nait 5i.

Regards

Neil

No. Sorry if it seemed like it.

The good news is you've saved yourself a pile of money. As results go that's a good one.

The older I've got the less I've tended to A/B. Maybe it's because the number of hours I will be able to sit back and enjoy music for is now less than what has gone!  There have been times when the insertion of another component has resulted in an obvious and compelling improvement. I now evaluate by discarding the present source/amp/speakers and spend all my time listening to the potential upgrade. It might be hours days or weeks. Then I give it back and go home to the old system. It's at that point - and frequently within a few tracks or a couple of albums, that the defining moment comes. Or doesn't. last year I had rejected a 555PS because I didn't like the voicing with the nDAC. I returned it to the dealer, thanked them and went home safe in the knowledge that by system would not change. Later that day I was back on the phone to them.

From personal experience I conclude that the more I flip flop the less I hear. But that's me. You've got your methods and I wish you all the best with it.

I think someone has mentioned that the beauty of the UQ is that it is a streamer and Integrated amp in one. Feeding the UQ into a nait isn't really going to make financial sense.

It would be interesting to hear comparisons of UQ on its own and UQ into nait 5i though.

Although only rated at 30w, the Qute seems plenty loud enough in my room. Infact I'm still amazed at the quality. I guess upgraditis will at some point strike though...

The best thing to happen this weekend was to rediscover some old albums I hadn't listened to for ages, and also say I was blown away by two new purchases - The Who 'Tommy' and AFTERMATH by the Stones both having been remastered and available from HDTracks. Highly recommended, great recordings.

The forums are extremely helpful, but ultimately, we all have to shop with our own ears.  If an upgrade doesn't bring you greatly enhanced performance or pleasure, what's the point?   Your subjective experience can't be judged.