NAP 250DR - Again

HH, did you try a 555ps before going for the XPS?

I didn't. The 555 is too expensive, and the XPS seems the logical partner. It sounds stunningly good and I have no need for anything better. 

Yeah the Big Fish has the right outlook - he's found the right solution for him so let's leave it there

One month on - I'm running out of superlatives for this amp. Rediscovering my music collection - it's an outrage I have to go to work.  Can't wait for a fortnight off at Xmas!

Yes indeed, it's fantastically good. It has none of the tubbiness and slight slowness that I could never get along with when I had the 250.2. It just sounds so right. 

Do any NAP 250DR owners out there think this amp could power the Harbeth new 40.2 speaker?  

I'm seriously considering the 40.2.  This is for a new system that includes the new 274 pre-amp and possibly SL cables.

This is for room about 14'X25' and not at ear-splitting volume levels.

I'm sure the 300DR would be even better, but I'm hoping the 250DR would get me most of the way there  

No knowledge of Harbeths but have heard the 250 powering the Sopra 2 and just excellent.  But as you say the 300 even better

blownaway,

At normal listening levels my non-DR 300 drives my Harbeth 40.1s comfortably in my 14' x 22' room so I believe your 250DR will be up to the task, too.

However I've read threads about the 250 getting very hot at high volumes with some speakers so I'd be careful not to push it too too hard.

Claude

Really? I wonder about the Sopra 2 with Naim. So you liked this combo?  I heard the Sorpra 2 with some mid level Macintosh that were not broken in.  I wasn't overwhelmed.  Maybe I should revisit this combo.

Good Claude, I was hoping this was the case. Good to hear your experience.

i think that - for my part - is an exagerrated statement...

i, for once, was quite shoked to see that the difference between the 250DR and 200DR was way smaller than a lot of people here advertise it... on the contrary, the 200 to 200DR step up was bigger than many observed...

i think in time i became more sensitive to some aspects of sound, and less sensitive to others...

i remember the old 250.2 being sligtly different in direction compared to the old 200.

now, the 200dr and 250dr seem way more in the same direction, which is a logical and normal thing since Naim's new approach is to design more neutral and natural sounding gear.

to me the difference between 200DR and 250DR was in microdynamics, or for short details, the bigger ampo having a slightly better way of insighting the textures of instruments and voices. but all other aspects were showing very small differences if any.

on the other hand, 200 vs 200DR brought a slightly bigger stage, better tonal and timbral accuracy (and the DR amp reduced very much the slight "harshness" of the non dr amp) and the whole picture seemed a tad more heavier.

again, those are the differences that i have perceived, into my own setup, fronted by 172 and followed by S400, with NAC A5 and Naim's interconnects, and Fraimlite underneath.

i was so determined to hear the 250DR at home since i thought it would be an instand upgrade wish, especially that this time i actually had the money to make a buy back for my 200DR to get the 250DR.

BUT, after hearing it, i considered that the differences weren't up to the cost...

on the other hand, i refused a while ago the trade in for my 200DR vs a regular 200 plus a DVD5...i thought then that the difference in sound is really worthwhile by keeping the 200DR.

to me, subjectively, the 200 to 200DR jump was more significant than 200DR to 250DR.

I thought it was very impressive; they played 250 and 250dr and 300 and 300 dr back to back into Sopras with the same source and cabling etc.  I thought the 250dr was superb and to my ear it drove the Sopras brilliantly

I'd agree with dayjay. The 250DR driving the Sopra 2s sounded very nice indeed - sufficient for me to conclude that I'd like to have a pair (but they won't fit in my room). However, when the 300DR was used to drive them the performance lift was very significant.

Mike 

Catalinmetal, interesting thoughts about 200, 200 DR and 250 DR.

but the 172 doesn't seem like the right front end to run into a 250 DR and compare with 200

can you please check these differences with a 272 or 282/HCDR and report back.

Also the source first mantra still applies very much, when I ran 282HCDR/200 with Hugo, I struggled very much to find the dry character of the NAP 200, although I fully support your views (which is shared by a dealer with very good ears). But with DAC V1 into 200, yes it sounds not great to me, so is it the DAC V1 or Nap 200 which is dry due to lack of resolution?

Vocals seemed very real to me with this combo 282/HCDR/Hugo/200.

FWIW I have compared the 200 to 250DR and although the 250 DR is still running in, the lower noise floor is much improved to the last generation of amps, with the black background (DR regulator), and faster transistors used in the 250 DR, which both 200 and 200DR do not have.

Analogmusic, in my albeit limited experience, the 172 is an outstanding source hitting way above its weight. I have heard the 172 drive a 300 into Kudos Titans and it sounded incredible.. and at the time was doing great things with vocal textures and Opera... so Catalinmetal's comments on the 200DR and 250DR are completely valid and interesting to me.

I'll take that task and run with it!

Will report back soon.

Simon, I don't disagree with you, but I just looked at the specs of the 172, and Naim state that it should be paired with a NAP 155 XS.

analog, I don't think Naim do say that. On the web site for suggested systems for the 172 they say contact your dealer, or alternatively you may want to start by first considering the S400 and NAP155SX

So purely a suggestion of where to start auditioning is how that reads... in the absence of any other suggestions from your dealer..

Yes I agree, and here we have different dealer views

2 of the big UK dealers have told me they could not hear any difference between 200 and 200 DR when 202 was powered by the HCDR, but one dealer who is well known contributor here says the 202/200DR combo is much much better than before, and the 200 is a dry sounding amp, whereas the 200DR is much much better, regardless of whether it is powering a preamp or not.

i think you have previously posted you did not find the 200 dry, and neither did I, once given a suitable source.

I remember playing a song by Beck - the golden age, and the vocals were "dry as a desert" when the source was a DAC v1, (both into 282/HCDR/200) but yet when the Hugo was in place, no such dryness.

I am not disputing the 200DR is better than the 200, but just want to properly understand the context of catalinmetals findings as I don't have the chance to hear a 200DR yet.

The 200 is still one of my favorite naim amps, and I still like it very very much.

Another dealer told me when I discussed Catalinmetal views that his issue was the 172 rather than the 200, it was one of these products that he couldn't really sell and didn't like that much.

Well I haven't heard a 200DR but as I understand it the major benefit comes from the DR PS that powers a 202 or 282.   What I can say is that I've heard the 250DR in several demos and most importantly in my own system against both the non DR 200 and 250 and I can only repeat that in my opinion the upgrade is very significant.  In fact last night after a week largely away on business I enjoyed an extensive listening session and I was mesmerised by the music on both vinyl and CD in a way that I have rarely been before.  I also happened to read the Ear review at the same time time and everything Jason Kennedy said I recognised.

With regard to speakers I don't think clipping is a problem with this version so if you could accommodate - I couldn't - the Sopra 2 would be fine.  Equally I would love to hear the Neat XlS/i or 6 with is - alas we are currently funding a new kitchen

and indeed he said about the 250 DR

"This is easily the best sounding Naim amplifier I have reviewed, and one of the best power amps I’ve reviewed period."

I await with eager anticipation (an understatement!) my first listen to a full DR 500 series!!!!

indeed Simon, those were my own findings about the 172, and also, my dealer's...

we both had the chance of hearing the 172 fronting some unusual setups with way-way above it's price tag power amps and speakers, and the 172 just sounded very-very good indeed, i mean, way above the expected SQ.

and the Ovators i think they are a good match to any Naim power amp starting with the 155.

as i said before, the comparisons with 200, 200DR and 250DR match my own findings at home, in my own setup, and were extensive listening sessions, not just two or three swaps back in a few minutes...

also, when choosing this setup in the summer, i started with choosing the speakers first, as they have the most important contribution to the final sound, as my own dealer and friend said nicely, is like the face of a person... when appreciating someone visually, it's facial qualities will have the most impact... and will express better that person's character, more than any other parts of the body. the same to spakers... so after deciding that i will want the Ovators, we started with some Naim and some additional gear and decided that for Naim spealers Naim electronics will suit the most. then decided that in Naim's hierarchy on those speakers, the source + integrated amp does not sound that proper on S400 as pre+ power (172+155 was better in many areas than - even - NDX + SN2).

then we tested some power amps, and the biggest jump in SQ was when adding the 200DR.

no other iteration, not even adding the 272 or then the 250DR, didn't seemed to me, at least, as significant as adding the 200DR to the equation... so the power amp was decided also...

on source, i considered 172 and 272, of course... and 272 was superior to 172, of course, but the difference in price could not be justified by me at the time (and to that matter not up to this day). i will probably want a 272 at a home demo one some day, in this current setup because i had done the comparison at home between 172 and 272 just when 272 was out on the market and at the time i was impressed, but on different speakers and amp... for the S400 i will need another home test... some day.

i do understand when some say that they liked the 250DR very much, there is probably literally nothing to dislike, and i started the home demo with the feeling that i probably would not return the sample back to the dealer's shop but returning my own 200DR and some cash instead... the thing is i struggled for a few days to justify such a step up in the context i have... it was better but not as i thought it would...

probably the jump from 200 to 200DR is to blame, being quite consistent in some areas, and thus i expected the jump from 200DR to 250DR to be way more significant, considering the architecture of the 250 is different in a better technical way... so i was expecting to be blown off, and insted it was just some degrees better, and mostly only in resolution, and then when listening in the long run, and putting back the 200DR after those few days with 250DR in place, and reckoning i haven't lost that much, i decided to not go for the bigger amp for now...

anyway, those were my findings, as i said, some of us are more sensitive to some aspects of sound, others to other aspects, so that's why i think a demo and a comparison - preferrably at home in a well known environment - is worth more than any number of read reviews...

i happen to thing that from the budget point of view the new 200DR is the sweet spot in the Naim's power amp range, but i'm sure some of you might think different. and when we like and buy a product, we tend to view that product into a very favourable light, is like becoming the superman of a product.

interesting.. Well I found the 250.2 very sensitive on its preamp. to my ears it just does not sound right with the 202, fun with the 282 and everything simply snaps into shape and just makes sense with the 252.. I can only assume you get more sense from the 552 and even more sense from the Statement?

Perhaps the same thing might happen with the 172 and 272? I haven't played with these units with different power amps.