Naim Integrated with more then 80W ?

More power doesn't mean better sound! The Nait's dynamic/peakpower capacities is good enough with over 160 watt's at 4 ohm. 

2x50-80 watt's at 8 ohm is enough to drive good speakers like a powerhouse!

Depends on the loudspeaker. Supernait adequate in smallish rooms with sensitive speakers but comes unstuck rapidly in a bigger space and speakers that crave real current.

Nope, it took Naim 30 years to move from 12w up to 80W

If you need more power currently maybe your room is too large or the soft Harbeth is not for you, finally your source could be the culprit

I Bet a SN2 will sound better/more powerfull than other mentioned, paperwatts untold

Naim watts are allways conservative and watts tells nothing about quality (but you want quantity ?)

If you wish to create disco-levels you need to replace both your amp and speakers

find new  stuff in the PA world

If you are currently happy with a Nait, a super Nait is a definite upgrade. And as mentioned before more power per se is not the only factor of quality for an amplifier. The 140w per channel of the NAP500 still beats with ease quite a number of 1000 watt mono blocks. Not in power but in quality of sound.

If what matters is power then get a more powerful amp. There's nothing worse than listening to beautiful music knowing someone might one day unearth the terrible truth about your 'specs'!

As for making a more powerful integrated, the output power has to be matched by the losses back through the electronics chain to the power supply. To uprate the power out requires to uprate the power in and through, so a bigger toroid etc. etc. Can you connect a Naim power amp to the Nait and see how that changes things?

Have a look at the Naim site and in particular look at the specifications of the NAP 200 250 300. See that there is only a modest increase in power output but that transient increase is quite big, It is this that is important. Notice that the integrateds don't mention transient output. I suspect the statement has a silly number because most of the people that can afford that like silly numbers.

Definitely do not rule out the SN2 based on the 80W thing, that power rating as tested is barely even relevant in the real world of use.  Just have look at the inside of an SN2 before you start worrying about that, you'll see that just under half if width of it is dedicated to providing power.

I've been running an SN2 for the around 6 months, having upgraded from a Cyrus 8vs, which itself had a modest 70 watts per channel.  And a great little amp though the Cyurs is, and in a comparable price bracket to what you have now, but vs an SN2 in terms of power and authority in the delivery of music itself, well, you'd think the Cyrus only had 10 watts by comparison.  

Despite my admiration for it, I should point out that there are quite a few people that seem to find the SN2 a bit 'in your face' and perhaps overly lively, and prefer something along the lines that you already have.  However, I'm pretty sure that you won't turn out to be one of them.

+1 on the SN2 power - it drives and controls speakers very well indeed and I do the majority of my listening on Focal 926s at 9 o'clock.  The occasional blast at 12 o'clock and above is like sitting in a nightclub next to the speakers.  I'm surprised to learn that people consider it a bit 'forward' as its not something I've ever felt.

I moved from an unserviced 2006 252/300 to SN2 (later with HCDR). No regrets at all.

G

Does the hicap make much difference Graeme?

It surprises me too that people say they find it forward, but then I love it so much I find it hard to understand people finding any fault with it at all.  It did for me what it seems Hugo did for everyone else. ;-)

G

I certainly love mine and it sounds brilliant with a Hugo running through it too 

Power itself generally isn't the issue - to illustrate the point...

Using 8Ω speakers of slightly lowish sensitivity (say 87dB / 2.83V) then 50W will give about 104dB.  Since the maximum you should listen to for 1 hour per day is 94dB, regularly using anything more is at best unnecessary, and at worst harmful.  However, more powerful amps can be justified for very low sensitivity speakers.

The main justification for more powerful amps isn't the power, it's the current drive capability for driving complex speakers that are a 'difficult load' for the amp.  Naim amps produce more current than their headline 8Ω power spec suggests and they are designed to drive 4Ω loads with ease.

Going back to the original question for a moment, I don't think Naim should make an integrated amp with more watts per channel particularly, but I wonder how many sales are lost due to the high price vs quoted output power, and how you address that?  It's not a big deal for people that are quite knowledgeable about hifi matters, but what about the new blood, who believe that their current mini system with i-pod dock has 30 times the power of an SN2?

While thinking about this, I decided to look at the kind of numbers quoted these days in the lo-fi world, and was pretty dumbstruck by what I discovered on the website of a well know Japanese brand, that begins with S.  A page showing a range of hifi systems gives some basic details with each, and on that single page I found the following quoted against the different systems, each between £450 and £500.

2400W Total Output Power

1850W Level Sound Pressure

1440W Equivalent Power Output

It's no wonder people get confused.  I don't even know what these mean relative to each other, never mind against real figures.  Ridiculous nonsense!  1440W Equivalent Power Output is personal favourite of the three, very funny.

SongStream,

I find 'Level Sound Pressure' the funniest - presumably it'll sound louder if pointed downward (upwards?) or perhaps if going down hill!

Mid you, as you say, all those figures are just advertising going downhill.

True and there aren't that many super efficient small to medium sized speakers out there. I listened to a 40K all McIntosh system yesterday. The speakers were 81db bookshelves. The amps reached peaks of 900w during Stravinsky's Firebird and my ears weren't bleeding either.

You want proper dynamics you need a) decent power OR b) very small room OR c) very efficient speakers.

Well, quite, I hadn't realised just how far downhill it had traveled.  I see what you mean about the sound pressure one, very amusing.  I am tempted to email and ask for an explanation of each.

Klipshorn will provide extremely high SPL with just a few watt

Unfortunately they're the size of a refrigerator.

+2

Mine continues to sound magical 

Its always amusing to see the surprise when you quote 80wpc to less enlightened friends who are expecting output power in the thousands.

Boaz, FWIW I moved from a NaitXS/FCXS at 60wpc to a SN2 and although you could say it looks like a modest jump in power on paper, the SN2 has so much more control over my speakers and gives the impression that it is barely even breaking into a sweat, even at louder listening levels. 

Thanks Graeme and Dan43 for your views on the additon of a HCDR.

Indeed, after which one has to decide whether to attempt an explanation, or just let them think you're nuts.  That is, unless you're in a position to demonstrate to them the effect. In my experience, demonstration has had a 100% success rate in settling any debate about whether it can sound good enough to be worth £3k, and whether 80W is LOUD enough.

Despite this even among my more like minded friends, I suspect the quoted output has led to a few misguided decisions.  A friend of mine that has followed my lead in climbing the hifi ladder over the last twenty years, but not necessarily my advice, left my house with a serious case of upgraditis after hearing the SN2 for the first time.  He decided that nearly his whole system had to go, but budget would not stretch to anything like a SN2.  Being a real Naim fan now, I naturally recommended a second-hand Nait XS-2.  This did get serious consideration, right up until he discovered the 60W per channel, which was less than his current Rotel amp.

In the end a Roksan Caspian m2 and a pair of PMC 21s were purchased.  Not necessarily a bad choice by any means, but, and bearing in mind these were both un-auditioned and bought through auction, I do believe that the choice between one well regarded amplifier vs another, came down to simply which had the most power on paper, despite my efforts prevent that.  As for the result, it sounds pretty good, and better than the previous set up, but I wonder how much closer to an SN2 the XS might have been (I've never acutally heard), and how much of the Naim sound that I've become familiar with could have been achieved.  My friends system doesn't sound broken (glad I got that phrase in), but it does remind me how spoiled I am.

For what it's worth, my own experiences....

Have been using a SN 1 and HiCap For the vast 4 years and absolutely love it. As somebody else said, at 12 o'clock it is like being in a nightclub, and probably way louder than is healthy. This into ProAc D28s which are only average efficiency (87dbW), and in a room roughly 7m by 10m.....

Mostly the volume knob doesn't go beyond 9 o'clock.

Paul