Pre-amps - what do they each bring to the party?

The way I see it is that the pre-amp is the stage.   The better the pre - everything else being = the sound will be more expansive.

You've identified the first of 2 paradigm shifts amongst Naim amps - the 282 is the first of the high end amps in my opinion and where I've decided to stop chasing audio nirvana.   The 2nd is the 552 - go and audition one at your peril!

What then of the 252?  Some will say they prefer the dynamics of the 282 and thereby prefer the 282.  IMO they'd be wrong.  True it's not a quantum leap like the 282 and doesn't bring to the concert what the 552 does but it's performance is a step up no doubt.

I also don't buy this view that the 252 doesn't rock. It does.

But it's all good - happy listening!

If you have a maxed out LP12, then a 552 is really what you should seek out for a demo. The stark difference you heard moving from 202 to 282 will be multiplied by a factor of ten !

A SH 552 will not be that far of a stretch compared to a 252/SCDR in price but will be a revelation in your listening room. 

ATB,

Mark

Absolutely the 252 rocks.. In fact it is a stupendous preamp.. Quite simply the best piece of hifi I have ever owned.. Along with its SupercapDR. It seems to make the best of sources, and my vanilla mk1 CDX2 just sounds fab playing rock and heavy blues into my 252.. The timing, pace and dynamics is mouth watering. I was fond of my 282 but quite honestly it pales compared to the 252 in just about every department I can think of.

The 552 is better again, but to my ears the 252 is a lot closer to the 552 than  the 282 is to the 252.. I guess it's a case of diminishing returns.

To the OP, the preamp in the Naim world brings everything together.. It's the heart of the system.

Simon

Pre-amps - what do they each bring to the party?

They bring more than you think or perhaps even want them too!

Over many years/decades I'd noticed that friends that had better Pre-amps than I did got a better performance, no matter if I had better Power Amp, Speakers or even within certain limits Source.

They bring a firm foundation to the music - setting the floor and a baseline against which all other upgrades seem to make far more sense.

I tried alternative approaches and eventually home-auditioned some better Pre-amps and ended-up with the 552 for many years, and now the S1. I did try the 252 and found it very good, but made perhaps the 'mistake' of hearing a 552 and it was decisive, but obviously more to pay to get that. The 252 I think sets the first real reference point for stability and confidence in performance, but is more fussy to set-up than the 552 I found.

You can just bung the 552 on a shelf (although you should do it properly) and it will sing, but the 252 needed a little more care in cable-dressing and placement to begin to do what it is capable of. The trouble for me was when I did the same with the 552 it took off into musical orbit and the money was spent.

In short - get the best Pre you can afford and then balance the rest of your system about it.

DB.

Wow, three replies, and no one has mentioned the ***absolute necessity*** of a home demonstration before you take the plunge. People are slacking!

The 52 has a whole world of upper range that's lacking in the 82 and 282, and the lower range is better as well. Never having owned a 252, I can only assume the same is true of it. As for the 552, I'm better off not knowing, even though my sources and speakers deserve one.

While I agree that a home demo is critical for many items, imo, the 552 is the exception to this rule.

Do a search and try to find any disparaging comments over the last decade- few, if any, exist. Just a wonderful preamp.

ATB,

Mark

Interesting thoughts Simon. I'm still dithering whether to DR my SC2 or trade the 252/SC2 against an early used 552. i think i could do option 1 for about £1.2 - 1.5k & option 2 for around £3 - 3.5k.

Decisions, decisions.

552 without any doubt. Everytime I hear it, I hear musical magic.

Agreed Mark. 

Harry, do you live in the Watford area? (With reference to the "Hornet"). If you do you're welcome to visit to listen to a max'd LP12 with a 552 here.

I agree with everything that has been said about these preamps up to the comments about the 282 as this is where I am at the moment and have not auditioned the 252 or 552 at home.

The OP also questions if the more superior preamps are more exacting on power amps and speakers. I would respectfully say they are - particularly relating to power amps if you take the source first (and work backwards) ethos. Certainly the speakers in my systems over the years have always been the last to be upgraded as I have found I got more for upgrading further up the chain but I don't know what speakers the OP uses.

I too am thinking about upgrading my preamp and am pondering leapfrogging the 252 and going straight to the 552. This of course will involve spending more, even on a secondhand 552 which will delay the the acquisition of a better power amp the 552 clearly deserves. I have a 250 DR and would need to use this with the 552 (assuming I leapfrog the 252) for a while until funds permit an upgrade of power amp. I realise this would be an extreme reverse mullet and maybe takes the source first ethos a bit too far (but I do use an NDS which ain't too shabby as a source). Would a NDS/552/250DR be severely hampered by the power amp or could it possibly work until funds permit a move to the 300DR?

I will of course audition at home where I can but the 552 is going to secondhand and they are rarely available form dealers so a home demo may not be possible.

Nigel,

Leapfrog away, no worries here. The 552 will work very well with a 250-even more so with the DR.

I ran a 552/250.2 for a while and it sounded wonderful backing up a pair of Titans. Drove them quite well to be honest.

ATB,

Mark

The 552/250DR would be great, and miles better than a 252/500. The 250DR is a super amp.

I believe Richard, our Moderator, runs a 552/250.2. Can't be all that bad .

Surely that should be 'our esteemed moderator'?

Point taken...

+1 the combination will do very well....

Hmm tricky, what I have found is the DR PSUs on the preamps make a huge difference... So if you get the used old 552, you really would need to most likely get its PSU DR'd, and it might need a recap.

i must admit, I am fond of the 552 but have never heard it deliver the hyperbolic performance that some describe on this forum..and I have heard 552's sound mediocre in a given system as well as sounding mighty fine.. So I would audition if you can..

I'm running an NDS, 552, 250.2 system at the moment and it sounds brilliant (a huge step up from a 282). If you get the opportunity and can afford it, I would say the 552 is the way to go. You can upgrade the amp later if you wish. There seem to be plenty with 552 and 300 or 250.2 amps on the Forum. Of course, recapping or DR-ing the 552 needs to be taken into consideration for best performance.

If a system or component in it is a one trick pony there is something wrong with it. There is nothing wrong with the effortless, musical 252. It'll play any genre you like with wonderful communication and accuracy which is only bettered by the 552, and probably the S1. I have yet to hear that comparison but I haven't heard a single negative comment from people who have actually heard it.

As you go up the preamp range, certainly as far as 552, you don't get "more of the same" as you ascend. They all sound different and according to my ears don't get properly musical until you hit the 252. Ideally what you want a preamp to do is appear to become invisible. The 252 approaches this. The 552 achieves it. Or apparently gets close but not close enough if you've heard an S1.

Sorry to the OP, I didn't mean to hijack your thread but hopefully some of the answers to my questions are relevant to you too Harry.

Thanks for your answers, particularly Cat Lover who has the exact system I am thinking of next (but not sure if your 250 is DRd or not - if not I would thoroughly recommend it). Yes, I had thought of the issue of the 552 being non-DR as it would need to be an older model to be affordable. The cost of DRing (and possibly recapping/servicing) a pre-loved 552 does need to be brought into the equation. I would certainly want the 552 DR'd as I have seen (or rather heard) what DR delivers on a Supercap and NAP250 - it is of course a no brainer to get the best from a 552.

But even a non-DR 552 is miles better than a 252. I would not get too caught up in the "need to service and DR" - find a preloved unit, from a dealer if possible , and enjoy. They are out there...

ATB,

Mark

hmm - not in my experience (with a DR 252) - but then we are all different.. it would have been nice if it wasn't the case..

Worked for me. At least it did until I heard a 552. Doesn't disgrace the 252 though. Just look at the price difference.