SNAIC Cable or other brand?

The SNAIC is a cable that carries not only signal but also DC voltage.  It is designed specifically for purpose and 3rd party alternatives should not be used, as doing so may not just impair performance but can also cause damage to connected equipment.  As such, 3rd party substitutes constitute an unauthorised modification, and their discussion is therefore not permitted here.

However, interconnects carry only signal and you are free to use whatever you wish, although for performance as Naim intended you should stick with the Naim supplied interconnects or consider one of the Naim upgrades; Hi-line or Super Lumina.

The band/sleeve on end of a Naim cable is there for three reasons; Firstly, it is colour coded according to type; Secondly, the end where it's fitted denotes direction (band closest to source end); Thirdly, the number relates to the Naim employee who assembled the cable.

More info can be found by reading the forum FAQ...

Richard, thanks once again.  Very prompt and accurate as always.

I picked up the NAC-N272 on Saturday and i connected it to the NAP 100, till i decide to upgrade to the NAP 250.  

Previously i had the UQ2 connected to the NAP100 and there i used the Vertere cable as interconnect between the two (no provision for the 4-oin connector on the UQ2).  That is why i asked, although the intention is not to tamper with the SNAIC cable in any way whatsoever.  3rd party alternatives, i meant RCA cables only.

But the N272 has an RCA output at the back, so i thought it is good to ask.

My SNAIC cable colour on the sleeve is white and ok i placed it near the N272, (the source), correct?

I don't know if i should make a separate post for this or not, the N272 has two RCA outs, one says line out and the other says preamp out.  What is the difference please?

Kind regards,

Line Out is fixed and allows you to use the NAC-N272 just as a source into another pre-amp.  Pre Out is a variable output (through the volume control).

Thanks again.

So if i understood correctly, Naim prefers people to use the SNAIC cable (4-pin) instead of another brand RCA cable, for their products, am i correct?

And if someone wants an upgrade, then he/she should opt for one of the other cables you mentioned before.

Regards,

Well, if we're considering whether to go DIN or RCA on the pre out of the NAC-N272 when paired with a Naim power amp then definitely go DIN, in which case a SNAIC4 is appropriate.

Don't confuse SNAICs with interconnects; SNAICs connect between power supplies and pre-amps, phono amps analog stages etc. and can carry 24v DC as well as signal, whereas interconnects only carry signal.  The FAQ explains in more detail.

Ok i didn't know all this, thanks once again.

In fact i was trying to find the FAQ page but i can not, could you please copy/paste the link for me?

Regards,

It's on the front page of the forum (Forums Directory).  

Here you go:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/fo...ly-asked-questions-2

I think i know why i got confused.

When i bought the NAP100 there was a SNAIC cable inside the box, and i had assumed that this was to be used as an interconnect.  At the time i just kept it in the drawer as i only had a UQ2.

Reading your replies, and also a post i read in the FAQ, which says basically what you said above.

I do need to understand though, i can use the SNAIC as an interconnect (DIN) but its primary purpose is for the power supply upgrade, correct?

So a customer can buy a Naim interconnect (DIN) separately from the SNAIC cable, or is the same cable used for both applications (power supply upgrade as well as interconnect)?

Regards,

ok but I also have 272 and nap 200 and my cable is called snaic 4 even if it does not carry any 24V. Well at least this is what I suppose

It is all very confusing to me.

Never had this issue before.

I am still to understand why it is better to use the DIN interconnect instead of the normal RCA between Naim products.

scratch scratch scratch.....

OK, most Naim power amps come with a SNAIC4.  This is to connect to a Naim pre-amp, either directly, where it also provides DC power from power amp to the pre-amp, or to the Pre-amp's power supply, where a dedicated PSU is being used on the pre-amp (the PSU provides the signal pre-outs in this instance), and here the SNAIC4 only carries signal, not power.  It uses 240 degree 4 pin DINs.

A SNAIC5 is used with power supplies, usually those used to power pre-amps, such as the Flatcap and Hicap etc..  It uses 240 degree 5 pin DINs

Current SNAICs are black in colour and have either a white band (SNAIC4) or green band (SNAIC5). 

In the Naim world, an interconnect is ONLY used to connect a source component - indeed, most source components come with a Naim interconnect in the box.

There are upgrade interconnects available; the Hi-Line and the Super Lumina.

The Interconnect is light grey with a slightly lavender tint and the cable itself is thinner than the SNAIC. It uses 180 degree 5 pin DINs, although there are specials such as the 4-5 pin DIN interconnects, and DIN-RCA/RCA-DIN variants for some rarer specific connections.

As I say, it's all explained in the forum FAQ.

Please see here.  Specifically the thread titled "A few reasons why we use DIN Connections"....

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...-use-din-connections

It really is very simple. A snaic is a thick black lead. It has various versions, with either four or five pins in the din plugs. Say you buy a nap200. It will come with a 4 pin to 4 pin lead. If you have a nac202 you use the snaic lead between the two boxes. It gives power to the 202 and takes signal from the 202 to the 200. Now, if you get a Hicap to power the 202 instead, the Hicap comes with a 5pin snaic. You plug this into the 202, and it will then give power to the 202 and take the signal to the Hicap. Your 4pin to 4pin snaic then takes signal from the Hicap to the 200, but now does not need to carry any power. 

If if you have a 272 and a 200, you still use the snaic to connect the two. It carries signal from the 272 to the 200, but because the 272 is self powered, there is no need for it to carry any power. 

An an interconnect is a different lead. These go between a source, such as a CD player or a tape recorder, and a preamp. The naim interconnect is a thin grey lead, and looks completely different to a snaic. 

Does that explain it?

Excellent!!!

Of course i never knew that the signal would pass through a Hicap, but it is irrelevant.  The explanation is super clear.

Thanks

 One more Halibut:

Therefore, in theory, i do not need to use the SNAIC between the N272 and the NAP100.  I could have used the thin grey cable instead, right?

Wrong. Because you are going between a preamp and a power amp, you must use the snaic lead that comes with the 100. 

You would use an interconnect if, for example, you were connecting a CD player to the 272. 

Richard i ready your explanation in the FAQ article, and thanks it is a very informative one.

However, i can't help myself coming up to you with a couple of questions as follows:

1.  If that is the case (and i am not questioning you), why so many manufacturers go to the trouble of testing and making these expensive RCA cables?  If it is only a matter of the RCA connector impedance, surely they could make the cable with higher impedance or the connector with lower impedance, right?  The issue of the ground is logical, but could the ground not be bridged internally to the equipment at both ends?

2. How about XLR connectors?

I will also add that i experimented quite a lot with my hifi in my home country, and i ended up with Kimber between the turntable and the preamp, Vertere between the DAC/CD and preamp, and XLR between preamp and power amp.  And after many many trials.  

As per the article's explanation, nobody should even be using RCA connectors, for audiophile quality music, right?

Regards,

Ok, but there is no power supply exchange, but i think i got it after reading Richard's article on the DIN connector, in the FAQ section.

Anyhow, all these are for information, i am using the SNAIC anyway.  But it is good to know the technical issues behind the principles, and me being an engineer, can't help but ask.

Then again, if it is so important to use the DIN, why is it not present in the UQ2?  Good question i guess.

Regards,

It's a concession to marketing. 

The UQ2 was conceived to offer Naim at a more universal market and it has its own internal amplifier. If you want to upgrade you use RCA out into pre amp. When you upgrade further up - DIN gets into the mix.

cheers

The reason is that during the late '60s and '70s RCA phonos found favour among mainstream Japanese hifi makers in particular, most probably because they were cheap and easy to implement.

It's not just impedance mismatch that's an issue, you have multiple contact areas and eddy currents.  In fact the big glitzy metal plugs are sockets are usually the worst for SQ.  Best are the simple plastic plugs or those from Eichmann and WBT (Next Gen) where metalwork is minimised and they have a single contact point.  These sound significantly better than most other RCA phono connectors.

Cannon XLRs are fine too, right up there with DIN, and are also used by Naim where appropriate - see NAP250, NAP300, NAP500 etc...  As Naim topology is single ended, that's how they are used here, with a common signal ground pin for L&R channels.

With Naim, signal ground and system earth are run together throughout the system for lowest noise - this is why pre-amp signals go through the power supplies for the pre-amps.  The main source provides the system earth reference.

And yes, as others have commented, the RCAs are there on the UQ2 as it's most appropriate at that level.  Someone newly arrived with Naim could well find DINs a bit scary and just about all non-Naim kit that may be connected will be carrying RCA phonos.