Tidal on NDX: first impressions

Posted by: phosphocreatine on 06 October 2015

I installed the new firmware on my NDX, checked in to Tidal with my account (HIFI) and started.

 

App. experience on Ipad:

the Tidal app. is cleverly integrated into the Naim app and response times are very fast. In the main screen are placed playlists, albums and so on as for the application that you usually run on your PC or IOS. The search for artists, songs or albums is responsive as in general is the general user experience. The thing I find most interesting is the possibility to create a playlist that include both songs from Tidal and from the local network (in my case a NAS Qnap with Minimserver): Well done Naim and the beta testers !

Sound quality:

Basically I noticed a general sound quality that is lower to the one obtained from my NAS: the bass is more boomy and details are lower. This phenomenon is not, however, constant and to explain what I have in mind I take two examples that represent the extremes: on the one hand "Summertime" by Patricia Barber where the difference between NAS and Tidal is most audible: the sound performance of the contrabass and and the general sound atmosphere is in strongly favour of the NAS (the same can be said for some pieces by  Antonio Forcione or Keith Jarret). On the other hand hits of the moment such as "Cheerleader" or "Ain't Nobody" where the differences are quite modest if not imperceptible.

 

Cheers

 

Posted on: 09 October 2015 by thebigfredc

Everything but the girl.....Eden album

 

donovan......sunshine superman x3

 

Los Lobos ........one night one time

 

new order......ceremony x3

 

grandmaster flash......white lines

 

 

Posted on: 09 October 2015 by Robd67
Originally Posted by thebigfredc:

Well f..k me. Something worth having which is actually free in 21st century Britain (ok only 3 months).

 

Am presently wandering down 80s John Peel festive favourite tracks which for one reason or another I no longer own but now have access to:

 

nick cave......Saint Huck

 

smiths...........Reel around the fountain session version

 

microdisney......A few kisses

 

this mortal coil .....Song to the Siren

 

BTW if anybody reading has not heard that This Mortal Coil song, go find it now - it's epic.

 

ATB Ray

 

 

This Mortal Coil - Best collaboration of Indie musicians. Top choice.

Posted on: 09 October 2015 by thebigfredc

Thanks Robd67. Is your avtar picture from the Singapore GP?

Posted on: 09 October 2015 by hungryhalibut

The Tim Buckley original is pretty good too.... I love that first TMC album. 

Posted on: 09 October 2015 by Robd67
Originally Posted by thebigfredc:

Thanks Robd67. Is your avtar picture from the Singapore GP?

Abu Dhabi 2013

Posted on: 10 October 2015 by PaulinBath

The track skipping is becoming a HUGE issue for me so cant see me extending beyond trial period (Im using the Moon Mind streamer but as you guys are also experiencing this it seems to be  Tidal problem) Has been farcical today, and dont think a single album has played without a skipped track. Just listening to AWB's Feel No Fret and straight from track 1 to Track 4, got it to go back to track 2 and then it went to track 5!!! Also noting that some tracks on the album are FLAC and some AAC so guessing it is pulling tracks from different sources. Still cant get track 1 of Robert Plant's Lullaby.... to play.

 

Not sure a service can be called lossless when it loses whole tracks

Posted on: 10 October 2015 by nudgerwilliams
Originally Posted by PaulinBath:

The track skipping is becoming a HUGE issue for me so cant see me extending beyond trial period (Im using the Moon Mind streamer but as you guys are also experiencing this it seems to be  Tidal problem) Has been farcical today, and dont think a single album has played without a skipped track. Just listening to AWB's Feel No Fret and straight from track 1 to Track 4, got it to go back to track 2 and then it went to track 5!!! Also noting that some tracks on the album are FLAC and some AAC so guessing it is pulling tracks from different sources. Still cant get track 1 of Robert Plant's Lullaby.... to play.

 

Not sure a service can be called lossless when it loses whole tracks

What do you mean by "using the Moon Mind streamer"?  You shouldn't need anything between the NDX and Tidal.  It sounds like you might be seeing tracks that won't play in your region because of rights issues, and so they skip.  But that was sorted out in beta testing so that the Naim app will only show the tracks that are playable in your region.

 

David

Posted on: 10 October 2015 by PaulinBath

Sorry, could have been a bit clearer. My system has evolved over the years in a rather haphazard way with what sounded best at the time rather than sticking with any one brand. I dont have an NDX - the streaming/DAC part of my system is a Simaudio 380D with inbuilt MiND. By coincidence, Simaudio have also just integrated Tidal in the last few days so I am also experiencing it for the first time.

 

We have a Sonos 1 in the kitchen which really just gets used for internet radio / occasionally streams from the NAS and we had never subscribed to any of the streaming services but it occurred to me this evening that I could set it up with the trial Tidal account. The Sonos app indicates that part of the problem is due to some tracks seemingly not actually being available on Tidal (show as tracks on the album but are greyed out - eg only track 2 of Robert Plant's Lullaby... album is selectable to play) but there is still an issue with tracks being skipped. I havent experienced much by way of dropout, just whole tracks!

Posted on: 10 October 2015 by hungryhalibut

When we were beta testing, Tidal was once unavailable for a whole evening. I'd never rely on it as my prime music source, it's simply too flaky. That's ignoring the very limited choice of music and the sometimes underwhelming sound quaility. 

Posted on: 10 October 2015 by PaulinBath
Originally Posted by Hungryhalibut:

When we were beta testing, Tidal was once unavailable for a whole evening. I'd never rely on it as my prime music source, it's simply too flaky. That's ignoring the very limited choice of music and the sometimes underwhelming sound quaility. 

Agree re choice and quality and I am still struggling with the search function but still new to it. To me it's probably not going to be worth £20/month. I think I would rather spend that on second hand CDs and enjoy ALL the tracks on an album.

Posted on: 10 October 2015 by nudgerwilliams
Originally Posted by PaulinBath:

Sorry, could have been a bit clearer. My system has evolved over the years in a rather haphazard way with what sounded best at the time rather than sticking with any one brand. I dont have an NDX - the streaming/DAC part of my system is a Simaudio 380D with inbuilt MiND. By coincidence, Simaudio have also just integrated Tidal in the last few days so I am also experiencing it for the first time.

 

We have a Sonos 1 in the kitchen which really just gets used for internet radio / occasionally streams from the NAS and we had never subscribed to any of the streaming services but it occurred to me this evening that I could set it up with the trial Tidal account. The Sonos app indicates that part of the problem is due to some tracks seemingly not actually being available on Tidal (show as tracks on the album but are greyed out - eg only track 2 of Robert Plant's Lullaby... album is selectable to play) but there is still an issue with tracks being skipped. I havent experienced much by way of dropout, just whole tracks!

So I suspect what is happening is your Simaudio is showing you tracks that Tidal have, but not with rights to stream them to the UK (assuming you are in the UK).  If you look at Tidal on the web and look at the album you are trying to listen to, if you see the tracks are greyed out then that means they cannot play in your territory.  The skipping tracks thing is then all that your streamer can do.  

 

Might also be be the issue HH describes wit Tidal going through a flaky time, but I suspect it's the rights thing.

 

David

Posted on: 10 October 2015 by nigelb

I played the same AWB album this evening streaming from Tidal using an NDS and had no track skipping problems. So it is either an intermittent problem with Tidal or more likely a problem with the Tidal integration with your streamer.

Posted on: 12 October 2015 by thebigfredc

10,000 Maniacs      My Mother the War

 

Kenny Rogers        Just Got in to See What Condition

 

Bob Dylan          I am your Man

 

(the two above from the Big Lebowski)

 

10cc          I'm Not in Love

 

Fleetwood Mac        Albatross

Posted on: 12 October 2015 by SteveMachine

Been using Tidal for the last couple of months. Last night is the first time I experienced playback skipping. It seems to be OK as I write this listening to the same album. I'm guessing that it's tidals problem or your internet connection if it happens a lot. They have recently announced 1 million users. What they need is an offline mode for streamers and PCs. Currently only iOS and android apps have this. This is what I was using before Naim integrated tidal into the streamer. It worked perfectly using AirPlay to volumio. 

Apple music has an offline mode for pc and Mac so I'm guessing it's possible to do and still keep DRM.

 it works well with the Apple remote iTunes iOS app. It's just a pity that Apple music is lossy.

 

Having said all this I love Tidal, it feels as though I have been given the keys to HMV

 

Posted on: 13 October 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk
There is no DRM on Tidal as such, there is however an authentication system that gives your streamer a unique time limited URI for the media track to be played. These transfers can be buffered and stored in memory if your player supports.
Also, I find the Tidal content rather rich and diverse, once you master the search.
Simon
Posted on: 13 October 2015 by SteveMachine

My stream (ND5-XS) doesn't have this function I guess. It would be good if I could save the music to my NAS. I agree about the library on Tidal, its just not as big as Apples unfortunately.

Posted on: 02 November 2015 by RBat2

Anyone else tried updating an older 24/96 NDX with the 4.4 firmware unable to get Tidal? Do I need to update to a 24/192 board?

Posted on: 02 November 2015 by Phil Harris
Originally Posted by RBat2:

Anyone else tried updating an older 24/96 NDX with the 4.4 firmware unable to get Tidal? Do I need to update to a 24/192 board?

 

Yes - you need a 24/192 capable unit to access Spotify Connect / TIDAL / Multiroom Master / BBC HLS Internet Radio functionality ...

 

https://www.naimaudio.com/conn...1591/say-hello-tidal

 

"Further Information

 

Compatibility of Older Products

 

Original NaimUniti and UnitiQute models and early NDX models are compatible with this new update but will only gain the new features (HLS BBC Radio support, TIDAL, Alarm Clock) if they are 24bit/192kHz capable.

 

You can check if your product is compatible by entering the Setup menu using the front panel or remote control. Then go to Factory Settings > System Status and scroll to > BC SW. If the version number displayed starts ‘3D’ you have the latest hardware. If it displays anything else then you will need to up­grade your hardware to benefit from new features"

 

Phil

Posted on: 02 November 2015 by RBat2
Thank you Phil, I thought as much but my dealer wasn't open today to ask.  Ive also read that the update is something the dealer can do, hopefully this is true and I won't have to wait too long.  Originally Posted by Phil Harris:
Originally Posted by RBat2:

Anyone else tried updating an older 24/96 NDX with the 4.4 firmware unable to get Tidal? Do I need to update to a 24/192 board?

 

Yes - you need a 24/192 capable unit to access Spotify Connect / TIDAL / Multiroom Master / BBC HLS Internet Radio functionality ...

 

https://www.naimaudio.com/conn...1591/say-hello-tidal

 

"Further Information

 

Compatibility of Older Products

 

Original NaimUniti and UnitiQute models and early NDX models are compatible with this new update but will only gain the new features (HLS BBC Radio support, TIDAL, Alarm Clock) if they are 24bit/192kHz capable.

 

You can check if your product is compatible by entering the Setup menu using the front panel or remote control. Then go to Factory Settings > System Status and scroll to > BC SW. If the version number displayed starts ‘3D’ you have the latest hardware. If it displays anything else then you will need to up­grade your hardware to benefit from new features"

 

Phil

 

Posted on: 02 November 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Yes your dealer should be able to do the streamer module swap, it takes about 30 minutes, and when I watched my NDX being upgraded a few years ago it seemed all straightforward.

 

Posted on: 06 November 2015 by Nede

Question regarding gapless playback.

 

Is there a way to make the Tidal app do gapless playback rather than the annoying half second breaks between tracks on albums with 'intended' gapless track breaks?

 

I can't find a setting anywhere, but I could be wrong?

Posted on: 07 November 2015 by Simon-in-Suffolk

No there is not a setting. The 'gap' seems to vary on how busy the service is. Sometimes the gap is a faint brief pause or faint click, other times it can be half a second or longer...I think another variable is if the next track to be streamed is from the same or different IP address from the previous track.. Tidal have a whole range of media streaming addresses that they use for each track...

Posted on: 07 November 2015 by Nede
Thanks Simon,
 
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

No there is not a setting. The 'gap' seems to vary on how busy the service is. Sometimes the gap is a faint brief pause or faint click, other times it can be half a second or longer...I think another variable is if the next track to be streamed is from the same or different IP address from the previous track.. Tidal have a whole range of media streaming addresses that they use for each track...