The price of ears

+1 

Sadly, human beings are very poor at estimating the actual loudness of sound (and you won't necessarily be aware if your hearing is being damaged either!).

Tha SPL meter app works very well and is free.

On a slight tangent (well you did say The price of ears)...

Here in Québec, the regulations covering compensation for work-related injury deem that complete loss of hearing is *worth* a 52% anatomo-physiological deficit, whereas complete loss of sight is considered as a 100% deficit. So hearing is only worth half of sight. Strange.

Sunk cost fallacy detected!

And due to the consistency of the small electret microphone capsule it's known accurate to +/-...?dB.

The UMIK-1's an excellent little microphone. 

It's all too easy to find yourself listening to music at unhealthy levels, particularly if you enjoy the sort of music that calls out for a bit of extra volume. Various forum members who've visited me have politely commented that I tend to listen with the wick turned up rather too high, and having checked the dB levels I discovered I was regularly listening at 90 or so. I've since made an effort to reduce my listening to more sane levels. So it's really worth checking how loud you're going.

I bought a Radioshack digital sound level meter a few months ago but hadn't got round to testing it, as I didn't have a battery. As I like to live life on the edge, I removed the battery from the smoke detector and found the following.

My normal listening level is 55 to 60 dB C Weighted set on fast response.

Cranking the 110's up to a level of 65dB provoked a predictable response from the volume police, "is it not already loud enough"

Most expensive calibration is my wife who very quickly and efficiently advises when the volume level exceeds safe and tolerable levels !

I've got three SPL's,  yes I do need to get out more !!!

One is a big expensive lump that I used in my previous life & now as useful in my retirement life as a chocolate ashtray - unless you're a bit anal about noise measurements - maybe that's why I don't sell it.

I have the little RS 33-2050,  nice & light but not particularly accurate at sub 50Hz & gets a bit iffy above 2.6kHz.    

Then I have a free-bee iPad app & for doing what we talking about in the thread its perfect.  

Our normal levels are 60-75dB  (C weighted, slow response) - note "Our"

But Mrs Mike is away on a pamper trip this week,  so the volume has been .....  err creeping up.  A while ago I went up to the bedroom & whooo now I see why the volume police get all upset;  Fourplay "Lets Touch the Sky" the bass, & not much else, was really pounding.   I just checked the volume as I I'm writing this post & its around 80-95dB.   It does not seem that loud in the room, but bedrooms & kitchen is suffering.    

Mike, change the weighting to *A* as this more closely represents the ear's frequency response. The reading should drop a bit, say 4 to 6 dB. Now you can turn it some more

Jan

  Now why didn't I think of that ? ............  

Glad to be of assistance.

I have yearly health checks at work. Sadly my L/H side has drop off 10 db's @ 4000 KHz in just one year. This is how long I've been back into the naim bug. Yes even though it's a great time one must always pay the piper.

 Alternatively it could be put down to my wife... she sleeps on my left hand side.

This could been seen as an added bonus in some circles

Another reason which is more plausible, in my youth I did sound for a local band. At the time I never used ear plugs my bad.

Age has an impact too, at 50 my left is not as good as my right.  My dad was a deaf as a post in his left ear although he denied it for years so its probably genetic.  I can still hear all the detail and easily detect changes in the system but it throws the balance off slightly

Worsening left ear timmitus here, and I have definitely rolled back the volume - loudest I go now is upper 80s to lower 90 for a song or 2, I pretty much hang out at around upper 70's for most listening.

Probably the headphones during weight lifting that do more harm than anything, trying to drown out the pure shite they play in the gym.

Yeah, but the lifting helps keep up the testosterone levels, doesn't it? BTW - you can say "shit" on the forum.

Anyhow, I'm reading this thread with interest while wondering about the accuracy of apps from various devices or digital meters from places like Radio Shack. Do these include some sort of calibration to an ambient level? In particular, I wonder about the reliability of fatcat's listening level of 55-60 dB. This is in a similar range claimed by relatively "quiet" dishwasher appliances and identified for normal conversation. Great for fatcat's hearing if that's where he listens, but how much can we trust these readings?

Microphone capsules in calibrated measuring instruments are selected for their level frequency response and consistent sensitivity, as opposed to size and cost which are primary considerations in mobile devices ( which is why proper measuring instruments cost as much as they do) - so don't expect accurate results unless your phone+app combination is calibrated with a reference source (and then valid only over the frequency range calibrated).

When I wanted to study something a few months ago and so assessed what was possible with phone or iPad and a free app, I found between 4 and 9 DB difference between simultaneous readings on an iPhone and IPad with the same app, and up to 13dB difference between readings with different apps on the same iPad with a constant source. those are very significant differences, and show that such apps/devices cannot be relied upon to give meaningful absolute readings. They appear possibly to be able to give comparative level readings (same app and individual device), though that is by no means certain if the frequency content varies. 

As for sound levels and hearing damage, it depends in part on the period of time as well as the sound pressure level. And it depends on whether you're looking at peaks or averages, and in that regard different music can be very different, with classical orchestral music not infrequently having a huge difference between soft and loud passages, such that the average can be very low even with peaks well over 100dB, while some rock music is may have only small variation all the way through.

For reference, IIRC UK H&S controls for workplace noise only start to kick in above 80dB (A-weighted average) based on 8 hours' exposure a day, though with specific controls on instantaneous peaks above 135dB. That would suggest that with an average sound level of 80 and peaks less than 135 you shouldn't have to worry too much unless you're listening like that for more than 8 hours a day. And higher average levels would be tolerable for shorter periods.

Note that one table is dB, the other is "A weighted" dB(A). These  give an authoritative Indication of when risk of damage to hearing may start to become significant

Sound levels with live rock music can vary considerably because of the many factors involved, but at a typical 'concert' venue is likely to be around 100dB average in the 'pit' area, say 3m in front of main sound source, dropping as distance increases, so at a mid audience position may be expected to be 85-90.

So an album or two at live concert levels (as in centre audience, not in front of speakers at a rock concert) lis unlikely to cause hearing damage, but doing the same for all day every quite likely will. I enjoy such levels myself, at least with some rock music, and have done for 40+ years, though i rarely listen at those levels for more than a couple of albums at a time. classical I also like at realistic levels, butbaveragecsound levels tend to be less.

However, back to the question, a phone or tablet plus aplikely likely to be reliable, and could easily cause you to either believe you are listening at maybe up to 10dB or more higher, or lower, than is really the case.  

Innocent Bystander,

Great info! This is what I thought might result from a more pragmatic approach to the matter, though I was not expecting to see one here. Kudos for relaying your relevant findings.

was supposed to say ...tablet plus app is unlikely to be reliable.  IPad glitch, sorry! 

i should say I only tried the free apps, but even the most expensive won't cope with different microphone sensitivities, unless some external reference source is available to calibrate them: I don't know if any supply that as part of the cost.

I wouldn’t stake a part of my future hearing health on some app written by who knows who from who knows where, let alone sampled via a smart device using an embedded, tiny, two-bit mic with an opening possibly compromised by dust and dander. A dedicated mic with associated software for the purpose seems far more prudent.

Sonos apparently have faith in the accuracy of the iPhone's mic, as they've just released a digital room correction thing that uses it. It seems that we live in a world where, if your phone can't provide a service, it ain't gonna happen.