Bad sound investigation - help needed

Have you changed anything since it was all sounding good?

If all the components are the same and the SN2 is in good order then the usual culprits are set-up or poor connections. Does it sound the same after you power-down everything, up-plug and plug-in all connectors and re-dress carefully all cables?

If answer is yes and you have eliminated the source then it is Amp or Speakers - probably the Amp.

DB.

Dark Bear suggests poor connections. I'd take a close look at the solder joints on the NACA5. If they've not been soldered well some oxidation could be weakening the electrical aspect of the joint. 

Have you installed a new non hifi component on the same mains circuit. I was told by my dealer that DVD / Bluray players are 'noisy' components which can put bad stuff down the mains.

mike

The likelihood of NAC A5 'going wrong' is negligible, so I'd be looking elsewhere.

The first place I'd look, as DB says, is the connections, particularly the speaker cable connections in this instance, but as he advises, remake all the other connections too.

The likelihood of speakers 'going wrong' is nearly as negligible as speaker cable, unless you've recently enjoyed a particularly enthusiastic listening session (the type where your ears ring for a while afterwards), and have overloaded your speakers, and damaged the cross-over or cones.

So that leaves the amp as the culprit.  Unfortunately, the likelihood of the amp 'going wrong' is much higher than the other two components.  Fortunately, you chose a Naim amp, so help in the form of their customer service is at hand.  What's the chance of borrowing from your dealer another amp that you can slot into your system to check the effect & confirm the diagnosis?   I'd hope this was a strong possibility for you.

Oh, and of course, there's the final final link in the audio chain... your ears.  I'm assuming your hearing is in tip top condition, no colds, flu or other complaints that might have temporarily degraded this final component?

Whatever it is, I hope you discover soon  

Roger

What about when you use the Rega record player that you list in your profile?

C.

Good morning,

these are very good ideas and things to check for me, thanks a lot, appreciated. 

I wil go through your list and yes, I think I can get a demo SN2 from my dealer if necessary. 

To my ears it also sounds "distant", voices are not coming forward. Awful!

Well, before anything else I will set up a basic system after breakfast, in fact the one that made me such a strong Naim-supporter. And this is my initial line up: HDX->>SN2->>Spendor SP2 3R2, using standard mains and nothing else, no HiLine, no DC-1, no HiCap DR.

I will also test this line-up with the Rega-turntable.

Will get back to you with the diagnosis.

Thanks a lot

Chris

My wife says, she has switched on the floor heating some 2-3 weeks ago, we have tiles in the living room. I got my SN2 last February, but the NACA5 some weeks later and all the rest step by step. I am basically used to the spring / summer sound of it all. My wife is deeply into classical music which she loves to listen to on our Naim equipment and she also agrees that it sounds "uninspired", when I began to complain - "uninspired" hurts, she is always right when it comes to music, but that is a different story.

Floorheating -> NACA5 does that ring a bell for anyone? The cable is not directly on the floor, I am using some plastic clips to lift it up. Will post a photo later...

Interesting.  I assume the floor heating electrical?  Maybe it's causing mains pollution?  Does the system sound better with the heating Switched off?

Kind of what I was thinking.. Perhaps some sort of pulsing technology in the under floor heating that causes some sort of RFI. Certainly the audio effects described sound like they could be caused by RFI pollution.

Simin

Some innocent-looking devices do cause big problems. I was rather surprised when a toothbrush-charger caused horrible murky-messy sound, even though my HiFi is on its own mains circuit; another forum member has the same problem with such devices and demoed it to me - not good!

But unless you hear it yourself you will probably not believe it.

DB.

A hairdryer on somewhere is the worst culprit in our house.  

G

I was thinking OCD when I first started reading this post.  A little unkind maybe but we are dealing with an audiophile personality.  APD, or would it be kinder to say APT (type)

i perceive issues with my own system from time to tIme.  It's not so much sound stage as my room/ setup is suboptimal for that anyway, but I do get a compressed sound.  All my gear, including the power strips and laptop, are on sort cones (APD for sure).  The compression is usually because the power strips/ boards are off their cones or the DAC had been moved and the cabling has become tight.  A bit of gentle adjustment will usually fix the issue.  Other times it's just the vibe, or more likely the mains.  Listen for a few hours and into the night and the optimal sound returns.  i find things typically sound better after a few hours, sort of the opposite to listening fatigue.

i think you have to be pretty sensitive to pick up these small things.  Sometimes a break from the system can also be good to restore a sense of proportion. Shut down your inner audiophile a bit. after all it seems that the issue is that the system is sounding less perfect than you are expecting.  We all know that perfection does not exist And you could just be noticing that you aren't listening to a Statement in an optimally treated room after all.

good luck with it.  

You describe the sound as distant, and in your first post as squeaky. If your speakers are wired out of phase, music will appear distant and bass will be missing, giving a thin sound.

Did this change occur when you installed the NAC A5 ? Please check the phasing.

Jan

Hey Briz, what is the meaning of OCD, APD, APT (type) - don't worry, I can stand it ;-)

STATUS:

I have returned to initial line up, the PRAT is back. Good news! I will now enjoy this for a while and then start adding special cables, HICAP, DAC and see if anything fails and the sound becomes bad again. 

I have taken out the NACA5 for a while too, because the initial line up had a different cable which I do not dare to mention in this forum anymore..but it PRATS ;-))

Yes, I am extremely sensitive, thats why I love NAIM, because all the different music styles around can be enjoyed, but with all the other equipment before, there was always trouble with Rock when Classic was fine or with Singer-/Songwriters when the beat was good. NAIM makes it all right for my ears and I want to keep this - no hunger to start buying/selling again...

Well, a good suggestion to take breaks. My break comes natural because I am traveling all week.

Jan-Erik: My wild guess is I have screwed the NACA5 at some point when trying to dress it out of the way of powerchords, LAN-cables, cables, furniture and so on. It usually sounds wonderful but I have to say I hate the handling of it. I do not think it was ever out of phase, although second hand, it looks properly soldered with the "red line" correctly on the outside of the red banana plug and with the NAIM plug also correctly fitted. However, I was pretty tough on it when trying to force it through my living room. I followed some of the instructions around this forum.

I am also not sure whether the Powerigel is a good idea after all, so I reverted back to the standard NAIM outlet for the moment. So right now: All standard cabling, SN2 with HDX into Spendor SP2 3 R2. In parallel I have my beloved Rega Apollo SE 35th attached to be able to compare HDX output with the original CD.

I will keep you posted with my results after adding all the nice additions one by one.

Best

Chris

Ah well, regarding electricity: 

We have put some covers underneath the speaker cables like we did last winter. 

My wall outlet has a direct connection to the main panel with no other household consumer in between and it is a Furutech wall outlet. Just doing all the expensive stuff I am afraid...LOL

Best,

Chris

1/ OK, it sounds like the cables are not reversed, but as a double check, reverse the cable connectors on one speaker. Does the sound stage snap into focus or seem diffuse? Does bass improve or recede?

2/ Regarding the in-floor heating, it will certainly generate extremely low frequency (ELF) magnetic fields (50 or 60 Hz, depending on your country) along with the harmonics of the power frequency. I've never encountered issues with ELF fields affecting sound quality. RF fields yes, but the heating wires are not generating fields in the RF range, although it is possible that the wires are reradiating RF fields picked up elsewhere in the electrical wiring system.

Hi Jan-Erik, I will certainly test the reverse position with the NACA5 but keep in mind, when it was sounding write like 3 weeks ago, the cable was in the exact same position and not changed. I believe this would not compromise sound quality over time but immediately. But thanks for your thoughts anyway, all of you are very helpful. I would like a map on which I can find NAIMIANS in my neighborhood...

Best,

Chris

Step 1: Adding HiCap DR to the SN2.

Cold it definitely adds distortion I notice - bad cables? I will give it some time... 

I had issues with one one of the 3 HCDR's I have had on my SN2.  The first one I used introduced a slight 'edge'...it also had transformer buzz. Not sure if it was cabling or the unit itself.

Last two have been fine.

G

Yep, taking the HICAP out again, problem is gone. It will go home for repair I suppose...

Don't rule out the Snaics as the root cause.

G

Nope, I will send them together with the HiCap and they can sort it out for me. No time for long testing, wanna hear music ;-))) just like right now.