Question about sound (please be kind)...

Interesting.  I wouldn't have thought it was Naim sound as such.  What I suspect you are noticing is a less emphasised mid-range (sometimes this is referred to as the presence band). In a car, unless it's a Bentley with Naim in it I suppose, the mid-range will likely be prominent so you can hear well through road noise, traffic noise etc. With headphones, I think it depends on the headphone but most headphones are not nearly as flat in frequency response terms as good loudspeakers are.

I don't know these Neat speakers.  No doubt someone else will.  But I think you probably are going to have to play around with speaker positioning to improve things. Or try some different speakers of course.

have fun anyway!

Best

David

Nope, not supposed to be like this.

For sure the good hifi difference is noticeable in terms of stereo imagery and depth of the soundstage, but the singer shouldn't be singing like he's hiding in a cupboard.

What are the album titles that you're experiencing this problem the most noticeably?

Bye.

Have you got the loudness button switched on on your UQ2? If so, this could be emphasisng the lower and higher frequencies at the expense of the midrange where most vocals are found.

Also, have you checked the speaker setting (small/large) on the UQ2?

Probable answer is: 'welcome to dynamic range!'

In car, on headphones at-work, TV, iPod... all poor dynamic range items that, unfortunately, have normalised most people to this being 'normal' and expected.

A friend's wife when visiting heard my system and said 'that is wrong! it does not sound like music but like being at a live concert'.

The fact that reproduced music is normally nowadays compressed and 'consumed' on low-dynamic range capable equipment makes this sort of comment understandable.

When playing back some music it will be processed to be compressed and it will be a wall of sound with vocals probably level with the rest of the music. Other older recordings may have no compression and you have the actual real performance.

Answer is to turn the volume up.

...but also check the speakers are not too close to the walls and unduly reinforcing lower frequencies. To test bring them forward a bit and see if it is the same.

DB.

this assessment would bother me DB... 

enjoy

ken

Definitely not - the Loudness setting gave me too much boom, and I've definitely got the speaker setting to Large. 

Answer is to turn the volume up.

 

...but also check the speakers are not too close to the walls and unduly reinforcing lower frequencies. To test bring them forward a bit and see if it is the same.

 

DB.

I wish I could, but respecting neighbours I rarely go over 45 on the UQ2. I've got my speakers probably about 1-1.5ft from the wall. They're not as wide apart as I'd like, maybe 3m, but I can't really get them any wider. 

I'll experiment more, but short of toe-in, there's little I can do about positioning. 

Funny, I can't remember exactly - but I will say that it does vary. On some titles I know are excellently mixed, like a recent reissue of Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, I'm getting amazing dynamic range and timbre just from a snare, let alone everything else.

So it COULD be just a handful of titles where the mix is meant to be like that? I dunno. 

It does not bother me. She is not saying it is bad, just so unexpected from what almost everyone now thinks of as 'music' that it belonged in her mind to a live event.

That is exactly what I want.

But another friend who I respect and listens to a lot of music using the modern normal mass-market means once commented: 'why do they ruin film soundtracks by me having to turn the volume up - why can't they record it like in the adverts'.

People are not nowadays used to hearing a wide dynamic range - at first it surprised me, but on reflection us HiFi people are the unusual ones.

I'm happy with being unusual.

Enjoy!!

DB.

Possibly your UQ2 is allowing you to discover that some albums are not well-mixed, or alternatively have been mixed for what most people will listen to them on, rather than "proper hifi".

i'm suspecting this is the case. the uq2, coupled with the speakers - are far and away the best hifi i've ever had (though I had an old 62/90 combo previously - but I think the uq2 is far and above that)

3m apart sounds like a lot to me. How far away are you sitting?

Actually I don't know why I said that, they're approx 0.5ft either side of a 40" tv - so what's that, maybe 1.2m? 

1.2m doesn't sound much to me (!), can you really not get them any further apart? Are the fronts of them further into the room than the tv screen?

Originally Posted by sjbabbey:

Have you got the loudness button switched on on your UQ2? If so, this could be emphasisng the lower and higher frequencies at the expense of the midrange where most vocals are found.

 

Also, have you checked the speaker setting (small/large) on the UQ2?

 

Definitely not - the Loudness setting gave me too much boom, and I've definitely got the speaker setting to Large. 

 

 

Originally Posted by Darke Bear:

Answer is to turn the volume up.

 

...but also check the speakers are not too close to the walls and unduly reinforcing lower frequencies. To test bring them forward a bit and see if it is the same.

 

DB.

 

I wish I could, but respecting neighbours I rarely go over 45 on the UQ2. I've got my speakers probably about 1-1.5ft from the wall. They're not as wide apart as I'd like, maybe 3m, but I can't really get them any wider. 

 

I'll experiment more, but short of toe-in, there's little I can do about positioning. 

 

 

 

I think 30-45cm from rear wall is about right based on my experience with motive 3, room dependant and all that. 3m apart maybe too much depending how far away you are, I am finding my Neat Petite SX sound best 1m 47cm apart from inside spike to spike if you like, although the Motives were less fussy over positioning.

Hence positioning might help a lot as has been said and I overlooked this aspect for too long :-(

Interestingly I find the Nait XS Amp vocals are more balanced in the mix compared to Nait 5i-2 which stand forward more (which I like).

Still XS brings plently other benefits :-)

they're about 30cm from the rear wall, and the tv is positioned dead between the speakers. If the speakers are 20cm deep, the tv is 40cm from the wall - if that makes sense. And no, unfortunately can't go any further apart.

Also agree that 3m is probably too much.  Try halving that then taking them out if you want.

In my experience listening in the car can never approximate the home environment.

Headphones can give oodles of information - far more than speakers costing 20x or more - but again can rarely replicate the loudspeaker experience.

I suspect your home system is reproducing correctly. Your problem might be that if you do most of your listening in the car or through headphones, your home system will never satisfy because its presentation is so different.

An obvious test would be for you to listen to your home system through headphones to see if it then replays music as you expect to hear it.

Just seen your correction to 1.2 m apart.  You need to sit closer I suspect (which is probably an annoyingly daft suggestion for you in your room) because that now sounds too close together! Gotta love this hobby... 

Fwiw I would not expect vocals to be recessed as you describe with Naim kit.  Have XS2 based kit also with Neat speakers, and that's never a complaint here, neither was it the case with a SN2 demo (or Statement demo).

Ok, so it sounds like the fronts of the speakers are in front of the tv, so that's good. Try pointing the speakers dead ahead, and just toeing them in by the tiniest amount to get a stable image. I assume you've ensured that they are in phase?

 The Rumours abum that you mention is a very nice recording and vocals certainly should not sound recessed - everything should be nicely balanced. 

Hi Andy,

It sounds like you could be experiencing an out of phase sound. This can occur anywhere in the replay chain, including interconnects, and indeed it is not unheard of for a single loudspeaker drive unit to be wired incorrectly.

A large flat-screen TV in between a pair of loudspeakers is never ideal. Try covering it with a duvet or similar. Acoustic reflections can cause some weird time-smearing effects.

You need a pair of professional ears on the matter. Your dealer?

Good luck.

John.

Andy,

Do you experience recessed mids with all sources or only with vinyl replay?

If only with vinyl, what cartrigde are you using?

Are you certain your speaker cables are correctly connected?

Out of phase wouldn't recess the vocals.  It would move them to the L and R speakers instead of appearing to come from the centre and be an obvious and different result.

This would be my long distance guess as well. In addition to John's suggestions, you could try moving the speakers well forward of the screen to see if the issue disappears.

Jan

I think this is it, it's just placement that's holding me back. On paper, not only should my kit be great, it should also be well paired - so there's no reason i can't find the sweet spot.

What are you using for cables ? What are you using for speaker stands ? What is the UQ2 and TT siting on ?    What you are using here might have some contributing factor.